ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Ethics: What to do?

Hmm now there's a thought Reno. Btw Mahlere, with my last post, It was a positive one.

luke, thought so, but....

reno, call the owner, he may not know. I don't know what happens on every job we do everyday. I couldn't possibly keep track of it all.

Heck, the tech might honestly have not known the problem (admittedly, he should not have been sent out to do the job, but we all know the problem getting qualified help) If the homeowner didn't call to complain, then they still assume it was a bad element and a plumber fixed it.

If it was a small, one man shop, i wouldn't call unless I personally knew the guy. But a larger shop, definately.

Picture this conversation:
Boss - "How did that water heater service call go at Mr. Smiths"
Tech - "Good, found a couple of bad breakers that we replaced, but the main problem was a bad element. I told him to call a plumber"
Boss - "ok"

Edited after E57's post.
At this point the conversation is over, unless the HO or the 2nd contractor contacts the 1st company and tells them what they found. But, without the phone call, that is the entire conversation.

[This message has been edited by mahlere (edited 10-11-2006).]

Picture this conversation:
Boss - "How did that water heater service call go at Mr. Smiths"
Tech - "Good, found a couple of bad breakers that we replaced, but the main problem was a bad element. I told him to call a plumber"
Boss - "ok"

I'll add this:
Boss - "ok - well the customer called the plumber, who said there was nothing wrong, and who also called another electrician who found some bad splices and fixed it. - Now they want thier money back."
[dumbfounded look]
Boss - "How did you determine it was the water heater? Or did you? I went by there today and they handed me two burned splices and a picture of where they came from, with a bill from the Plumber and Electrician who fixed it."

Reno I would definately charge for it! (Technicaly since the Plumber called you, I would bill him, and he can tack it on to his.) I too have been in the same situation many times. I don't know what your bill was, or if they are refusing to pay? But I am always sceptical walking in as the "second Electrician", and on occasion the third.... So this is one time I don't mind, and would preffer the customer to look over my shoulder - and I'll explain as I go. Just to avoid finger-pointing. If I find something that can be visable, I take a picture of it now. And detail the Job Describtion to the letter. In this case would go just like this:

"Water Heater Non-operational, Voltage at Branch Breaker OK, Voltage deficiant at equipment junction. Splices found in LB next to panel in poor condition. New conductors pulled. Water Heater operation confirmed."

You'll be surprised how fast a copy of that makes it to the other company, along with the bill from the Plumber. You may not have to call them, they might call you...

I would call the other EC.The boss should know, regardless of the size of their shop! I wouldn't slam him to the costomer either. Say something like "honest mistake, mabey he overlooked something".
My boss has taken some off of an invoice for a unsatisfied customer before. Especially if they're worth it.

Damned if this doesn't sound like a textbook question from the ethics section of PE exam! If I was giving a textbook answer, I'd confront the contractor first, and notify his supervisor if I didn't get a satisfactory response. And in an extreme case, recommend the client take him to small claims court.

Way easier just not to do anything.

I didn't even think of calling the other contractor. That's the best way to handle it. If it was my guy screwing up like that I'd want to know too. That's the what to do...

The what to say to the homeowner..... You don't have to make up excuses and try to justify what the other guy did or that it was an "honest mistake". If their tech truly didn't know what he was doing (which sounds like the case to me) then either the boss is dishonestly sending out a guy to a call calling him an electrician, or the tech is dishonestly selling himself to the boss as qualified. I'd avoid bashing the guy, but that doesn't leave the other option as talk him up. When in doubt, less said is often better.

I'll let this run for a bit, then tell you what I decided to do at the time.

This is not, in any way, saying I had the perfect answer. Indeed, I need you guys to help me keep on course.

I also think discussing this will help us be ready for the next time...

What would I do?

Nothing.

Calling the other electrician to let him know his guy did not find the problem is really none of my business. It's the other guys business. Only unless I knew of the other electrician might I call him and let him know one of his guys screwed up and I got a call to see if I could correct the problem. Getting into another contractors business is IMO a bad idea.

shock, i used to agree with you. then i wondered why plumbers all did better than us. I realized it's because they talked to eachother and didn't look to screw eachother as much.

just a thought.

Very good rule of thumb Jps1006, "when in doubt, less said is often better". What an educational post this has been for me. Thanks guys!