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#66603 - 06/10/06 08:13 AM CA-Certification Floundering Statistics  
electure  Offline

Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,260
Fullerton, CA USA
Again.....Some more

NORCAL has been good enough to send some info to us.

[Linked Image]
[Linked Image]

DAS has also extended the date for testing another 6 months. Although the date for certification remains at Jan 1, 2006, you don't have to take the test until the end of the year. See this for some doublespeak at its finest

After nearly 6 years, this is what the the law read:
"3099.2. (a) (1) Persons who perform work as electricians shall become certified pursuant to Section 3099 by January 1, 2005. After January 1, 2005, uncertified persons may not perform electrical work for which certification is required."

I guess there's no reason to rush into anything, is there? [Linked Image]
When will it all end?

[This message has been edited by electure (edited 06-10-2006).]

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#66604 - 06/10/06 12:18 PM Re: CA-Certification Floundering Statistics  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
The key to this getting off the ground is ENFORCMENT!

The CSLB has washed thier hands of the issue (they never had a hand in it), as they have had budget and staffing cuts over the last few years to deal with. And it is not thier law to enforce.

Building Officials I have talked to also have little interest in getting involved in labor laws, they have a hard enough time with code enforcement. And it is not thier law to enforce.

WC, liability insurance, and bonding companies wont do it unless there is a law saying they have to, so it is not thier law to enforce. And they will sue to get out of it...

As this is really a labor law, would it not be these guys to enforce it? Well, where are they? I have not seen any wirey office guy in jack-boots and a badge asking me if my papers are in order - yet. As this office is only a year old, and probhably has a a dozen people covering a whole state, and seem to have broad interest in other topics I doubt anyone will ever see them.

Anyway, the day stories start to circulate about people lossing thier right to work in thier chosen trade, or being told they have to go back to school in order to do so, things will happen. Otherwise, nothing is going to happen on this. Employers have no fear, there is no real penalty for the employer. As mentioned before, they might not be able to have trainees or apprentices on the payrole if caught, but who is enforcing that?

What has happened? An on-going joke IMO. 6 years of non-deadlines and post-ponements. Little or no attention to the major flaws in the law, and several law suits to correct some of the very heinous discrepancies in it at the very beggining. Many EC's see the law as unenforcable for a lot of reasons. And the ones who did recently try to comply with it have had several problems. Non-interest from employees who's responcability it is to get certified. The ones who did, got offered more money from other EC's attempting to comply with the law. The total lack of entry level labor available to comply with it. All said, for the companies who tried to comply it has been a burden, and slightly inflated the labor market. The companies who didn't went on as usual. For the employees who tried to comply, it has been time, and money out of thier pocket. And a lot of them, myself included, are saying, "For what!"

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#66605 - 06/10/06 03:14 PM Re: CA-Certification Floundering Statistics  
LK  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
"Anyway, the day stories start to circulate about people lossing thier right to work in thier chosen trade, or being told they have to go back to school in order to do so, things will happpen."

Almost the same words, said here in Jersey back in 1962, what happened, the lic law went in effect, and everyone had to test,or go back to school.

#66606 - 06/10/06 04:53 PM Re: CA-Certification Floundering Statistics  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
This is what Washington State has, unless we have something simular, we may as well forget about it..... I assume NJ has some sort of penalty, and enforcement policy?

Enforcemnt is a wild guess in California....

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#66607 - 06/10/06 05:37 PM Re: CA-Certification Floundering Statistics  
Trumpy  Offline

Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,217
SI,New Zealand
I can only but agree guys,
This has dragged on and on and seems to be starting like the never-ending story.
The shame to a degree about this, is the fact that it will only be the honest EC's that will comply with this, the rest will just carry on as if nothing had even happened. [Linked Image]

Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

#66608 - 06/10/06 06:57 PM Re: CA-Certification Floundering Statistics  
LK  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey

I can understand what they are going thru, the lic. law went in Jersey in 1962, and the enforcement just started last year, 44 years to enforce a law, it is beyond funny, they just figured out, that they needed to let, the local enforcement agencies, understand the laws, concerning consumer affairs, and lic laws, in order for them to enforce them, gee i guess 44 years is pretty fast considering some of the clowns we have down in trenton, i was watching an assembly meeting, on PBS when they were discussing the short fall of funding for the state, they actually were proud of chasing out business from the state, and even more proud, of finding ways to make the tax paying public suffer, so don't dispare cal is not the only goverment lost in space.

[This message has been edited by LK (edited 06-10-2006).]

#66609 - 06/11/06 01:46 AM Re: CA-Certification Floundering Statistics  
macmikeman  Offline
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 717
Honolulu, Hawaii
Help me out here, I don't quite understand this. Does everybody in California have to go through an apprentice program regardless of the number of years they have put in the trade? Don't you guys already have j-man licenses or Masters licenses? I understand the part about testing, if they never had a testing system in place, but sending an old hand back to square one seems a bit unjust to me.

#66610 - 06/12/06 03:55 AM Re: CA-Certification Floundering Statistics  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
Oh where to begin, and where to end?

Before Electrical Apprenticeship was not mandatory. There were several ways to enter the trade. Two seperate forms of formal apprenticeship via IBEW or other Merit shops and Associations. Then the many various informal apprenticeships AKA OJT. Or for that matter no training at all - just get a job, and do what you're told.....

As far as calling yourself an Electrician business wise there were two options and still are. Be un-licensed and be limited to under $500 of totalproject contract price, or be licensed by the CSLB . (They enforce the B&P side of the law, and license all construction contractors state-wide, with exceptions for certain telecom, and security contractors, and of couse the oil and gas industry.... For Electricians that license would be a C-10)

Then enter AB-931 in 1999, and its many incarnations afterwards. Which mandated apprenticeship, training, certification and continuing edjucation, and registration of the Employees of C-10 licensed contractors by the DAS , who under the DIR enfor Labor laws. Thier Electrician certification program has been a rusty thorn ever since IMO! Slow, mis-directed, ineffective and agenda ridden. I guess I'll stop there.

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

#66611 - 06/12/06 11:09 AM Re: CA-Certification Floundering Statistics  
sandsnow  Offline
Joined: Sep 2004
Posts: 167
Irvine, CA, USA
The enforcement thing is news to me, since I have a mole buried deep in the DAS.

My latest info was there still just concentrating on getting the thing off the ground. Everything else is on hold.

There is no active enforcement.

I can tell you the penalty and that is prohibited from taking the test for 5 years.

I have heard rumors of maverick (I could use more flowery language here)local AHJ's asking for cert. cards, but as far as I know they have no authority to do so. I don't have any more details as to any consequences of such situations.

Local AHJ's will not officially enforce this unless two things happen.
1. The State tells them to. Major whinning here if no money is given to AHJ.
2. Local City or County passes ordinance to require it. I could see LA doing it, but for the most part the local jurisdictions will ignore it.

I have asked people myself if they passed the test, but that was only to make converstion.

Another big question with no answer: How do you renew it? It would be nice to know what kind of classes will be accepted, now that is in force. Unofficially I have heard that almost anything related to electrical will be accepted. So if you take a class or seminar - save your certificates or some evidence.

I will get an update from my mole and let you know.

Larry LeVoir
City of Irvine, CA

#66612 - 06/12/06 08:33 PM Re: CA-Certification Floundering Statistics  
e57  Offline
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
I had my mole removed, they froze it off. then I found out you can do it yourself. Oh wait, that was a wart. [Linked Image]

The melinoma that I call from time to time told me some wierd jazz about denial of insurability as a method of enforcement, but then again that particular cancer has out and out lied to me in the past.

Anyway, I like many others have wondered about this continuing edjucation thing - not much on that yet - but seeing that my card expires on the 28th of THIS month, I had better get cracking!

What the regulations say....
(a) Certification shall be renewed every three (3) years. To be eligible for renewal an applicant must provide proof under penalty of perjury of 32 hours further electrical education from an Educational Provider relevant to the type of certification, and must certify under penalty of perjury that he or she has worked in the industry 2000 hours within the previous three years.

"relevant" what does that mean? Especially, "under penalty of perjury". What is relevant to me, may not be relevant to them....

Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason

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