ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Splicing a new light fixture while circuit is energized

In Miller's defense, I've changed out ballasts hot in a local Hardee's because they didn't want the lights out during business hours.

[sarcasm]
I can just see some of you shutting down an entire factory to make a tap connection... [/sarcasm]

Around here, the electrician unwilling to work hot period will find himself in the commodity cheese line.

I wish I did work in an area where I could call the shots, "No, I don't do that, you'll have to do it my way or find someone else... Muahahahahaha!"...

Cripes guys, HV linemen probably think we're a bunch of wusses...

The way I look at it, if your hands sweat, find another carreer...

I know, I know, OSHA and all that, but I've never seen an OSHA rep around here, (and I would be the most compliant one if they did show up, being the only one on site with steel toe boots and I do have a hardhat in the truck although I rarely wear it).

Sorry, didn't mean to rant, but there's an ideal world and then there's the real world.

Actually I'm jealous... You guys making $40K a year and never have to work hot... Me netting $6K (not a typo) and I do all sorts of questionable things just to keep 'em happy...

Must be nice...

Yeah, OK, usually it's Sparky that gets me in trouble here. 30 years ago, we did not turn most things off to work it. The time I spent as a lineman reinforced a lot of that, but I do realize, most things can be de-energized with understanding now days. If you have to hook it up hot, (and let's face it, sometimes you do) connect everything except your hot conductor, and then tap the new conductor to your energized conductor. You may get a slight arc, but if it is shorted it will be much larger, since your doing this "on the run" you won't have a solid connection to "blow" hot copper all over you. That is exactly the way a lineman is taught to check before solid connection. when replacing a lightning arrestor, sometimes they aren't good, you learn that method real fast. Mea Culpa to all you OSHA types out there.

Just go through the process of someone getting seriously hurt or killed that works for you and see if you don’t re think that position.
I hooking up that light hot worth loosing your business?

I see a large gap bettween what is, and what should be, not that it justifies it's existence, yet i'm somewhat frustrated with it.
I carted 70E around in my van for some time , only having learned of it from you guys on the BB's. A worthy investment of $30+ , i don't see why it is not standard fare for apprenticship programs. The linesmen were the only group i could coverse with, some of whom would point technique to me as George stated. Most other electricians had little to no knowledge of the document. Many sole proprietors simply pointed out thier exemption from OSHA. This is why 'subbing-out' has become a popular tactic for helpers. I suppose i'm perpetuating a group rant......

I was asked one day by a non-electrician if I was comfortable working "hot" circuits. My reply to him was, "The day that I am comfortable working hot circuits, is the day I put my tools down for good." Unfortunately with my job comes a lot more live work than I would like to tackle on a daily basis. I deal with a lot of 240/480 systems on street lighting that is worked hot to troubleshoot the endless problems with them. We have already shut down entire buildings to do work on electrical systems and where ever possible shutdown the circuits to be worked on. One problem we run into, is the incompetent work of our precursors. Constantly running into white wires that are hot and hot wires that are taped off in a box. I guess when it comes to this discussion, I am all for shutting the power down whenever possible. There are times when it is just not feasible and at those times all due care and safety concerns must be addressed.

Well I think a "group rant" can be enlightening. Doctrinaire safety talk is meaningless without the war stories that make it real. Hopefully we who have experienced what happens by doing things "old school" can enlighten the ones who are a bit greener.
As an apprentice instructor for 5 yrs, I wasn't given the green light to teach the "realities" of the trade practices -past and future- because of fears that I would possibly be positively sanctioning the old ways, merely by letting the apprentices know how it was done! So they learn this stuff on the job without the full picture, or they figure it out on their own, and think they can endear themselves to the company by cutting corners.

There are a bunch of extremes we deal with. About two years ago I worked at a plywood mill that was on the edge of bankruptcy. To shut down the line was a big deal and cost a lot of production. Like the other electricians there I just "did what I had to". Understand, this is a very depressed area and jobs are very hard to find. But some things did not need to be worked "hot" and I had to show the "safety" guy the applicable regs to get this stopped. The mill did shut down and the next job was the extreme in the other direction. This was at a well known and large computer makers facility [746 thousand square feet], and a maintenance worker had been killed doing hot work on 277 lights a few years before. To even change tubes they required a licensed journeyman and the power had to be off. I was the only electrician there and ran my butt off trying to keep up. Not counting the logistics of not putting people in the dark in an office setting. Extreme examples of why we see things differently.
Don

Good examples, Sparksalot. The mill example brought to mind the issue of profit sharing and bonus checks..incentives which keep the "anything goes" mindset alive..as long as nobody gets hurt, then its a denial game! "Uh, heck, everybody knows its company policy to lockout/tagout, I don't know why he didn't follow policy!"
Hey, we're a team oriented culture. We want our team to win. Only thing is, we don't quite see the game within the game.

Is everyone here talking about 277V flourescents or 120V or either?

I don't see that big a deal with 120. Worst that usually happens is a zap-tingle on the hand, although a couple of times I got a bigger zinger like halfway up my arm or something.

On 120, I don't usually consider it worth a trip to the panelbox if the job is for one or two switches, outlets or fixtures, especially if I would have to go to another floor to turn it off. And sometimes I'd rather keep it on so I don't have to run a cord for lights. For anyone working for me, I let them decide. I never tell them they have to work hot.

Just how dangereous is 120V. If it depends on the factors, what are they? Like how bad would be a short from one hand to the other? I don't think I've had that happen to me.

Tom,

... I thought you were a Roofer ??