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#59540 - 12/07/05 09:21 AM sub-panels  
Bert66  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2004
Posts: 80
Belle Chasse, La. USA
is it acceptable to use split bolts to connect from the primary side of a main breaker to service another main breaker in a seperate panel. let me explain, from the meter socket we feed a 200a main breaker panel, an additional garage was added with a 100a main breaker panel. could i use split nuts to terminate and supply power to the second panel or just put another 100a breaker in the first panel to feed the second 100a main breaker in the second panel? In this configuration both panels would have a paralle feed from the meter. Does this violate any code?


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#59541 - 12/07/05 09:51 AM Re: sub-panels  
trekkie76  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 220
baileyville, maine, usa
I would put another breaker in the main panel and feed out to the garage. you would save time and IMO have a more secure connection. Is there some reason you wanted to do it this way, like no more spaces in the main panel? As far as violating any code, I would want to know how far from the main it is, you might be able to use the tap rule.

[This message has been edited by trekkie76 (edited 12-07-2005).]


#59542 - 12/07/05 10:15 AM Re: sub-panels  
Mike Wescoatt  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 161
Cedar City, Utah
I've been having a brain block on this one... When you run wires from the meter to the building main breaker it is called a service conductor, right? What is the wire set called when you run from a new 100A breaker in the main panel to another building, as in the suggestion from trekkie76? Feeder? Lateral? Branch circuit conductor? I want to find out to apply the proper rules from the code to see if I can run them inside or if I need 2" concrete or keep them outside...
(Some days there's just too many pages in the code... ;-)


Mike Wescoatt

#59543 - 12/07/05 10:16 AM Re: sub-panels  
Larry Fine  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 693
Richmond, VA
I would see a problem with placing 300 amp's worth of main breaker on a feeder sized for 200. Use the breaker.


Larry Fine
Fine Electric Co.
fineelectricco.com

#59544 - 12/07/05 12:46 PM Re: sub-panels  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,121
Estero,Fl,usa
Any connection on the line side of the service disconnect is a service entrance conductor and would have to follow SE rules. It also adds to the size of the service as Larry points out.
Installing this as a feeder (on the load side of the service disconnect) is a safer option with less potential problems.


Greg Fretwell

#59545 - 12/07/05 01:44 PM Re: sub-panels  
Helectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 90
Brandon, SD
I think that code section that your question refers to is 230-40 exception #1.

You've given us breaker sizes but I'm curious about the calculated or actual loads served by both panels - 230-23 (a) & 230-31(a).

Another approach would be to come off the load side meter lugs. While permissable you won't have the added piece of mind that having a CB on the conductors would give you.



[This message has been edited by Helectric (edited 12-07-2005).]


#59546 - 12/07/05 03:53 PM Re: sub-panels  
jwhite  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 64
Trenton, NC, USA
Where are you planning to find a meter with lugs rated for more than one wire?

The biggest concern I would have is stripping the current wires to attach that split bolts as they are live.


#59547 - 12/07/05 04:06 PM Re: sub-panels  
Steve Miller  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 325
Loudoun Cty, VA
jwhite:
I did one that had a 400a meter can, 350 Cu thru the mast to the POCO. In the meter can we removed the single lugs and put in doubles. We fed two separate panels, one in the house and one in a garage. AHJ had no prob with changing the lugs. (in that area the homeowner owns the meter can, it's not provided by POCO)


#59548 - 12/07/05 06:23 PM Re: sub-panels  
Helectric  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 90
Brandon, SD
JWhite & Steve,

Yes, this is done in my area as well. I think that you can even order meter cans with studs only and then install the desired lugs yourself.
If I remember correctly, the code allowed this practice until the 70's then it was taken out for about 24 years. I'm not sure but I think it (230-40 exception #1) first reappeared in the 2002 code.

[This message has been edited by Helectric (edited 12-07-2005).]


#59549 - 12/07/05 08:00 PM Re: sub-panels  
earlydean  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2003
Posts: 751
Griswold, CT, USA
If you tap the service conductors ahead of the main, these are still service conductors, and are subject to all the rules of services. You cannot run service conductors through building #1 to feed building #2. (230.3) Either make your connection outside the building (10x10x4 J-box) or feed through a CB, as discussed.

[This message has been edited by earlydean (edited 12-07-2005).]


Earl

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