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#59150 - 11/28/05 08:59 PM 30 amps through 14 awg wire !  
rowd  Offline
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 31
Park Forest, Illinois, USA
I was talking to my mortgage broker today and he said:
"Why does my wiring hum?"
I asked min to describe what he had plugged in. He said:

"I was plugging in Christmas light and kept blowing the breaker so i got into the panel and changed the breaker. But when the xmas light are on you can hear a low pitched hum."

I said:

"What size breaker did you replace the old breaker with and he said 30 amp"

<b>I almost fainted</b>............

I explained to him how dangerous this was and to immidiatly take out the 30amp breaker and put the 15amp back in.

Now I've long suspected that if you exceed the amperage rating of a conductor it vibrates but have never tested this. Anyone care to confirm this?

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#59151 - 11/28/05 09:45 PM Re: 30 amps through 14 awg wire !  
PCBelarge  Offline
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 681
Dobbs Ferry, NY, USA

You may have been mistaken. This time of year, there are many Xmas songs.... and remembering the words to all of them is difficult. I believe the wires were humming, as they did not know the words [Linked Image] [Linked Image]

Sorry... Actually I believe what you posted is pretty good.

Pierre Belarge

#59152 - 11/28/05 09:59 PM Re: 30 amps through 14 awg wire !  
ShockMe77  Offline
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
Rahway, New Jersey
I come across this alot, especially in the inner city. Seems that people who cannot afford an electrician just fix the problem themselves by going to a larger breaker/ twist-in fuse. It's a shame because this is one of the easiest ways to start an electrical fire. Like the saying goes, good electricians aren't expensive, they're priceless!

#59153 - 11/28/05 10:10 PM Re: 30 amps through 14 awg wire !  
winnie  Offline
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 649
boston, ma
I don't think that this pertains to overload specifically, but simply something that happens whenever current flows; conductors move when current flows through them. Conductors in a circuit tend to push themselves apart. The force will be roughly proportional to the square of the current flow, so the effects of this force will be more noticeable the higher current is. I've seen large cables jump during short circuit conditions.


#59154 - 11/28/05 10:45 PM Re: 30 amps through 14 awg wire !  
lamplighter  Offline
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 101
I agree, I once had the priveledge to wire a testing station for spot welding guns for automotive manufacturing.
The leads to the guns were about eight feet long and made of 500mcm welding cable.
the cables would just hang there, side by side, until you threw the juice to them and then they would jump straight up and over so that they were 180 degrees apart and as far away from eachother as possible.
It was fun to watch.

#59155 - 11/28/05 10:54 PM Re: 30 amps through 14 awg wire !  
BigB  Offline
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 721
Tucson, AZ USA
I have a good sized air compressor which runs on 120 or 240. I am currently running it on 120. It is plugged into a receptacle which is wired with thhn in emt. Every time it starts I can hear what sounds like one or two of the thhns slapping against the inside of the emt, very distinctly. I think the thhns are solid. I have also heard thhns inside emt make a lot of buzzing when energizing into a short circuit.

#59156 - 11/28/05 11:09 PM Re: 30 amps through 14 awg wire !  
LK  Offline
Joined: Jan 2003
Posts: 1,429
New Jersey
We get to home on a service call, wife called with bedroom circuit will trip breaker, so we look in the bedroom, TV, Computer with printer, electric baseboard space heater, at this point she informs us that her husband has fixed this type of problem before, so we go to the basement, and look at the panel, every 15 and 20 amp breaker except the bedroom circuit, was replaced with 30Amp breaker, we advised her this was a dangerous condition, and explained proper circuit protection, at this point, she went to the phone, and called her electrical expert husband, she returned from the phone, to tell us to please leave my house, my husband said, he will call someone that knows what they are doing.

#59157 - 11/29/05 06:37 AM Re: 30 amps through 14 awg wire !  
Steve Miller  Offline
Joined: Aug 2001
Posts: 325
Loudoun Cty, VA
Yes they will hum, usually not for long. Then they'll burn. Another example of this that is legal and normal is a large diesel geny (250-500 or so) as it starts. Watch the battery cables. The huge draw that occurs when the diesel starts causes the cables to shake and hum/scream for just an instant.

#59158 - 11/29/05 09:05 AM Re: 30 amps through 14 awg wire !  
Mike Wescoatt  Offline
Joined: Jun 2001
Posts: 161
Cedar City, Utah
LK, did you hand her the phone number for the local fire station?

If you make something idiot proof, someone will invent a better idiot.

Really, for their sake, I hope they called another electrician. They might see a pattern emerging in the advice they're given.

Mike Wescoatt

#59159 - 11/29/05 10:04 AM Re: 30 amps through 14 awg wire !  
mamills  Offline
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 745
Wharton, Texas, USA
LK: I wonder what qualifies her husband as an "electrical expert"? It's obviously not the same standard that qualifies real electricians.

All too often, I have seen overfusing and "overbreakering" reduced to merely a matter of economics and convenience. The 15 amp fuse blows (or breaker trips), so I will put in a 30. It costs the same and you don't have that annoying blowing.

Logic without reason... [Linked Image]. It keeps the Fire Departments and the Funeral Homes operating.

Mike (mamills)

[This message has been edited by mamills (edited 11-29-2005).]

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