ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Back Stabbing...

Oh, I forgot to post reason #4 (laziness) in my list

BTW Mike,

What's your background?

[This message has been edited by Redsy (edited 10-21-2005).]

Don't do it, and won't. It just gives the service guys money to go and repair.

Anyone who has trouble shot one of these backstab receps, knows what I am talking about.

However, I feel for the new construction guys, you have to take "short cuts" in order to compete and stay competitive.

I got a recep, that I found troubleshooting a intermittent refrig circuit. It has no screws for the wires, only a ground screw terminal. Everything HAS to be back-stabbed. It was put in by a "kitchen remodeler/electrician". I have no clue where he got it, cause I haven't seen one like this ever before.


Dnk......

Interesting about the outlaw of backstabbing with #12. My house was built in '89 and every receptacle is backstabbed with #12.
I was never really happy about it, but it has been problem free for the last 16 years and I do load some of those circuits pretty hard. I am inclined to agree, with George amd Sandro, that it is more a matter of install and product quality than the connection methode itself.

[This message has been edited by IanR (edited 10-21-2005).]

Dnkldorf:

I've seen the back-stab only receptacles you speak of.

Leviton makes them and they're for sale at one of the local Home Depot stores (in Manhattan).

They're also the standard in Korean domestic wiring.

All residential sockets (either for American plugs or European plugs) and switches manufactured in South Korea are back-stabbed.

The ground terminal is the only thing that uses a screw with a pressure-plate (a nut behind the metal bracket that holds the screw)

Korean devices are designed to American dimensions and fit American boxes.

I brought a dumpload of new ones back when I returned from my trip. My friend who lives there LOATHES them with a seething PASSION.

She'd take a screw-terminal receptacle over these any day (which means I get to buy some of her electrical material and ship it over )

in Europe receptacles and switches with screw terminals have died out years ago and have been replaced by qack-stab only ones. Quality products normally don't cause problems, cheaply made ones do. On the other hand I recently bought some of about the last receptacles made with screw terminals (back wired ones with compression plate terminals) and they went straight from the box to the dumpster! The plastic was so soft the compression plate would twist upon tightening the screw and never make a solid connection. Even though i dpon't really like backstabs I don't have any _logic_ arguments against their use. It seems like most backstabs sold in the USA in the past _were_ made quite poorly and thus have caused many problems and a strong dislike amongst the electricians. here in Europe most electricians _love_ them. The only reason i ever heard from a sparky for liking screw terminal recepts was: "well, you can put in 4 wires if you try hard and in the backstabs you can only get 2!"... not exactly a qualified reason for using screws!
At home we have backstabbed receptacles from 1991 that are being used daily and so far none of them failed. The only thing I _really_ dislike about the old backstabs is the flimsy release button that's almost impossible to press.

Dnk: The back-stab only receptacles I've seen are commonly used in "Temporary" power strips of various manufacturers.

Temporary - longer than five minutes, but less than thirty years...

Anybody ever run into a situation where a wire was backstabbed into the little screwdriver-release slot instead of the wire hole?

Mike (mamills)

[This message has been edited by mamills (edited 10-26-2005).]

I would be hard pressed to say that my 35 years of experience is superior to a NRTL such as UL.

UL tests the stab-loc of these devices and list them as an installation method. For me to say that the stab-loc is inferior would the same as saying that I am superior to the testing lab, a step that I am not ready to make.

Most of the people that I have a chance to talk to in person that make the statement that the stab-loc is inferior could not be convinced to make the installation. When ask for a reason or substantiation the only reason I get is, I just don’t like it.
I have yet to talk to someone who can give proof that even one stab-loc failed due to the device. Either the circuit was overloaded or a poor installation was made is the only reason I have heard.

In the Europe, the power is 220-240 volts; thus, the typical current draw is half what that current draw in the US is for a similar load. It is reasonable therefore that backstabs might work well in Europe, but not in the US.

I think on average European circuits tend to have fewer outlets on them than the equivalent North American one, and yes, I think 16amp is about the largest circuit found in most of Europe. The UK of uses 32amp circuits and as a result, our outlets are still all screw terminal [grub screw type rather than wrap around]. Slightly sideways thread drift, I _far_ prefer the wraparound screw terminals on US/Canadian devices to the British style tunnel terminals.

Jw, I would bet the UL testers do not test things in a "real world" enviroment.

The manufacturer will provide an installation technique or procedure upon which the UL tests the device, and it probably passes.

I can't imagine a UL tester installing them at a production rate, and on thier knees all day long for years.

The ole saying " it looks good on paper" comes to mind here.....


Dnk.....