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#56462 - 09/22/05 05:23 AM Instant Answers Posts  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,223
SI,New Zealand
I'm a tad saddened by a few New Members here that think that Electrical Contractor Network is an Area where you can drop a question in and you will get an instant answer to your problem.
Now, before I get knocked down for saying it, what is the point of training as an Electrician or any sort of Electrical worker, if you merely have the answers thrown at you?.
Wether people like it or not, you have to do the "hard yards" of calculating math in your head or on paper, you still have to do it.
H*ll I didn't like it either, but I got there.
Electrical Theory is not that difficult, I'm proof of that.
Just as a note, if anyone is looking to have thier exam questions answered for them, forget it, go the same route as we had to, work it out for yourself.
Don't for a second think that I am getting down on Electrical trainees, but thinking "Oh I can't do it, It's too hard" is just a cop out.
Exercise the grey matter, that is what is lacking these days.


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#56463 - 09/22/05 09:34 AM Re: Instant Answers Posts  
jw electric  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2005
Posts: 106
Asheboro, NC
Now Trumpy why be so hard on these young electricians that are up and coming in the trade? Did you not need help when you were learning?

Any veteran electrician that has had to trouble shoot an ice cube rely control center knows that with out a doubt that the easiest way to find the problem and get a plant up and running is post the problem on the web and some one will tell you the answer.

Isn’t this the best way to troubleshoot a problem?

Here is an easy math problem to help a good trouble shooter get started. I have a plant that has 25 employees. This plant is set up on an assembly line so if anything goes wrong with a piece of equipment the whole plant comes to a stand still. The average pay for the employees is $14.50 per hour? How much will it cost me in labor should I have equipment down time?

The repair person should have the knowledge to have the plant back in operation as soon as possible. This is why as an instructor I will have my classes solve problems from day one to graduation. A problem such as the one above is the first one I give them. They need to have an understanding that should they have a chance at this responsibility they need to know that the owners are paying over $6.00 per minute in down time. They learn that their knowledge is their greatest asset. Their ability to solve this problem quickly is why they are there. Check this link for a idea of a good troubleshooter. It is obvious that the best man for the job was called for the repair. When you look at this link look at the date it is posted.
https://www.electrical-contractor.net/ubb/Forum1/HTML/005239.html

I have no problem answering a question for someone that has posted their problem and their answer to let everyone see their work and possible errors. I will not freely give an answer to a question that I think is an assignment!
[Linked Image]


Mike

#56464 - 09/22/05 01:37 PM Re: Instant Answers Posts  
winnie  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2003
Posts: 649
boston, ma
I for one have grown up with the web and with the 'group mind' that it can help form.

The code discussions that we have here are a perfect example. Someone brings their understanding, describes the core that they are having difficulty with, and then we all pick at it.

I believe that this requires a certain amount of up front information; if someone has a question about voltage drop, for example, I'd be very annoyed by someone asking 'What is the voltage drop of a 100 foot length of 12/2?' On the other hand, if someone came along and asked 'How do I calculate the voltage drop for 100 feet of 12/2? I tried calculation xxx but I don't think that the answer is correct...' then a bunch of us would help find the error.

If someone posts a class question, and describes the approaches that they've taken to solve it, I wouldn't be above giving a pointer; but I would not give an answer.

-Jon


#56465 - 09/22/05 06:01 PM Re: Instant Answers Posts  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,877
Brick, NJ USA
Guys:
Like Trumpy, I paid my dues, like a lot of us here.

I wish I had more time to spend here, to lay back, jump-in, share, and learn. Alas, a lot on my plate, limits my time.

Trump, you are right....unless someone happens to log in, a little patience is needed, sometimes a lot, most times a little.
I think I know the thread you may be referencing.

The time that I have been around here, I enjoy, and yes, this guy has learned things.

Some of you guys know that I teach PT at a County Vo-Tech.....and YES, math skills are surely lacking, and in some cases the 'will' to solve a problem by one's self is non-existant.

I teach Basic Electricity, Ohm's Law, Series/Parallel circuitry, POWER and voltage drop in that class, and Basic Wiring in another class, and fill-in NEC when req.

WE used to get a lot of 'homeowners' and DIY questions once upon a time....that was not a good scene...stock reply was politely saying to find a qualified EC (Lic if required, depending on the area) That type of ?? seems to have stopped.

All you new guys, and anybody else....take note.....YOU CAN E-MAIL me directly, my e-mail is in my profile, and IF everyone completes their profiles, all of us will know a little bit about all of us.

John


John

#56466 - 09/22/05 09:02 PM Re: Instant Answers Posts  
ShockMe77  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2005
Posts: 821
Rahway, New Jersey
Electrical Theory is not that difficult, I'm proof of that.

Trump, you are 100% correct. Open up the Code book and take a look for yourself. It isn't all that difficult, and you'll become a better electrician for it. Barnes and Noble booksellers has a ton of informative books in wich to learn stuff you might never know about but always wanted to know. And of course there's always trade school.

Some books that I found to be very helpful were:

[Linked Image]

[Linked Image]

Among others from http://www.delmarlearning.com/

and of course the very informative website that Mike Holts offers at http://www.mikeholt.com/index.php?id=homegeneral

But the key to learning is your desire to learn. Without that you're bound to fail.


#56467 - 09/24/05 02:40 AM Re: Instant Answers Posts  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,223
SI,New Zealand
Some of us folk never had on-line help when we were trained.
In fact there was no on-line.
You fellas that use this service go for it, just because we never had it, doesn't mean you guys should suffer.
Get into it, that's what the Net is for!. [Linked Image]


#56468 - 09/24/05 09:10 AM Re: Instant Answers Posts  
Joe Tedesco  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
Whoa!

If I am online, and I usually will be, especially during my presentations, I use this board and the comments to show how we all have contributed to the finest on the INTERNET! I even post questions that arise during the day.

Most of the time I spend the evenings on the computer and often look at the board and post an answer to a question before the day was over.

No big deal, so let's not scare the new kids away.

Many images and comments that are sent to my attention find their way into the EC&M magazine.

On another note, I still can't understand how anyone who does not have an NEC, in some form or fashion can even begin to answer or especially criticize the simple questions asked by some students.

Just my opinion


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant


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sparky66wv
West Virginia
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