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#52020 05/21/05 12:06 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 375
G
Member
The outlets allowed are listed in 210.52B(1).

"No Other Outlets" from 210.52B(2) is with respect to the outlets allowed in 210.52B(1).

I do not install appliance circuits. I install countertop circuits - 2 20amp circuits supplying only the countertops.

But the instalation as described is allowed.

#52021 05/21/05 12:51 PM
Joined: Dec 2004
Posts: 209
H
Member
Let me start by saying I'm still in the 1999 NEC as we are in the dark ages...so if 210-52 has changed, I'm sorry, but in my code book: 210-52 does not seperate the required receptacles in 210-52(a) from the countertop receptacles req'd in 210-52(c). Actually 210-52(b) refers to 210-11(c)(1)which in turn refers us back to 210-52(a) and (c). I don't see where we have to seperate the countertop receptacles from the req'd wall receptacles. The only place in my code that I see that distingushes the countertop receptacles from the wall receptacles is 210-8(a)(6) which requires the countertop receptacles to be GFCI protected but does not prohibit them from being on the same two or more circuits than the req'd wall receptacles.

#52022 05/21/05 08:32 PM
Joined: Feb 2005
Posts: 693
L
Member
Agreed, HLC. I often place feed-thru GFCI receptacles in wall outlets before the countertop, so none of the more-visible receptacles have to have buttons, and they can match one another.


Larry Fine
Fine Electric Co.
fineelectricco.com
#52023 05/22/05 09:01 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 23
T
Member
Quote
e57 wrote:
...and GFI's if there is any servicable equipment up there would make it "Equipment Space".
GFCI protection is only required for unfinished spaces at or below grade level (210.8).

Other than that, I agree completely with what you wrote. [Linked Image]

Quote
George wrote:
But the instalation as described is allowed.
Negative, buddy. Have you ever seen a disposal's receptacle placed at counter level, or not concealed from "wall use" by a cabinet? The 2 or more SA circuits are to used for Wall/Counter/Refrigeration use in the rooms specified in (B)(1) only.

A receptacle in a cabinet or behind an appliance (dishwasher) is a violation of (B)(2). Those outlets are not serving wall/counter/fridge space. [Linked Image]

You can supply all those appliances with circuits that do not have outlets serving wall/counter/fridge space. But as soon as you have one receptacle on that "appliance" circuit serving wall/counter/fridge space in the areas described in (B)(1), then that circuit instantly becomes a "small-appliance branch circuit", trying to comply with that code. You have a violation.

Simply put: Put circuits for counter/wall/fridge receptacles for (B)(1) on their own, and then sprinkle in your fixed appliances on their own dedicated or combined circuits after. [Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by The_Judge (edited 05-22-2005).]

#52024 05/22/05 12:11 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 375
G
Member
The_Judge ---

"A receptacle in a cabinet or behind an appliance (dishwasher) is a violation of (B)(2)."

I do not see these code prohibitions you give with regard to the wall/floor recepts.

In particular, recpts in appliance garages are on the small appliance circuts.

#52025 05/22/05 02:05 PM
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 2,876
E
e57 Offline
Member
Judge, depending on what code you're on-GFI's service recpt's are needed in any closet, crawl, attic, roof where the HVAC guy stuffed a furnace, or ac.

Quote
210.63 Heating, Air-Conditioning, and Refrigeration Equipment Outlet.
A 125-volt, single-phase, 15- or 20-ampere-rated receptacle outlet shall be installed at an accessible location for the servicing of heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle shall be located on the same level and within 7.5 m (25 ft) of the heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The receptacle outlet shall not be connected to the load side of the equipment disconnecting means.
FPN:See 210.8 for ground-fault circuit-interrupter requirements.
Section 210.63 is intended to prevent makeshift methods of obtaining 125-volt power for servicing and troubleshooting heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment. The reference to 210.8 in the fine print note to 210.63 reminds the Code user of the GFCI requirements for these receptacle outlets. The requirements in 210.52(E) for outdoor dwelling unit receptacles located within 25 ft of this equipment will meet the requirements of 210.63.
The requirements of 210.63 were expanded for the 2002 Code to improve worker safety. As a result, a receptacle outlet is now required for troubleshooting heating, air-conditioning, and refrigeration equipment at grade-accessible outdoor equipment and at rooftop units associated with one- and two-family dwelling units.


George, 210.52 as a 'section' covers recpt's in dwellings. And part 'A' is all the other rooms of a house, part 'B' is kitchens, pantry, dining rm., etc. Anyway, right before this section splits into these parts, you have this: And it covers all in the 'section'
Quote
210.52 Dwelling Unit Receptacle Outlets.
This section provides requirements for 125-volt, 15- and 20-ampere receptacle outlets. Receptacle outlets required by this section shall be in addition to any receptacle that is part of a luminaire (lighting fixture) or appliance, located within cabinets or cupboards, or located more than 1.7 m (51/2 ft) above the floor.

Then Part 'B' covers the two circuits required in 210.11(C)(1), and any from it that are part of the ones covered in part 'A', like walls in kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room. And also the countertops they are intented for covered in part 'C'.

Quote
210.52B(1) Receptacle Outlets Served. In the kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room, or similar area of a dwelling unit, the two or more 20-ampere small-appliance branch circuits required by 210.11(C)(1) shall serve all receptacle outlets covered by 210.52(A) and (C) and receptacle outlets for refrigeration equipment.

Then 210.52B(2)No other outlets

I believe in the 2005 code, it better defines the appliance garage issue. I'm not sure if it seperates them from these circuits too?

Either way, the appliance circuits rules apply to the DW/GB circuits, being "fastened in place". Another story all together.

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 05-22-2005).]


Mark Heller
"Well - I oughta....." -Jackie Gleason
#52026 05/22/05 07:55 PM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 23
T
Member
Quote
Judge, depending on what code you're on-GFI's service recpt's are needed in any closet, crawl, attic, roof where the HVAC guy stuffed a furnace, or ac.
Where does it state that receptacles in an attic need GFCI protection?

George, e57's reference to the main section 210.52 (before the "A") is the most accurate reason why receptacles in cabinets are not considered in (A) or (C).

In addition, let me add this: 210.52(B) is very specific regarding what SA circuits can feed.

Look at the exceptions to (B)(2). If receptacles concealed by appliances or cabinets were acceptable, why would the exceptions mention them? The items you see in the exceptions would directly violate the rule if not excepted from it. [Linked Image]

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