ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area kitchen circuits

The outlets allowed are listed in 210.52B(1).

"No Other Outlets" from 210.52B(2) is with respect to the outlets allowed in 210.52B(1).

I do not install appliance circuits. I install countertop circuits - 2 20amp circuits supplying only the countertops.

But the instalation as described is allowed.

Let me start by saying I'm still in the 1999 NEC as we are in the dark ages...so if 210-52 has changed, I'm sorry, but in my code book: 210-52 does not seperate the required receptacles in 210-52(a) from the countertop receptacles req'd in 210-52(c). Actually 210-52(b) refers to 210-11(c)(1)which in turn refers us back to 210-52(a) and (c). I don't see where we have to seperate the countertop receptacles from the req'd wall receptacles. The only place in my code that I see that distingushes the countertop receptacles from the wall receptacles is 210-8(a)(6) which requires the countertop receptacles to be GFCI protected but does not prohibit them from being on the same two or more circuits than the req'd wall receptacles.

Agreed, HLC. I often place feed-thru GFCI receptacles in wall outlets before the countertop, so none of the more-visible receptacles have to have buttons, and they can match one another.

GFCI protection is only required for unfinished spaces at or below grade level (210.8).

Other than that, I agree completely with what you wrote.

Negative, buddy. Have you ever seen a disposal's receptacle placed at counter level, or not concealed from "wall use" by a cabinet? The 2 or more SA circuits are to used for Wall/Counter/Refrigeration use in the rooms specified in (B)(1) only.

A receptacle in a cabinet or behind an appliance (dishwasher) is a violation of (B)(2). Those outlets are not serving wall/counter/fridge space.

You can supply all those appliances with circuits that do not have outlets serving wall/counter/fridge space. But as soon as you have one receptacle on that "appliance" circuit serving wall/counter/fridge space in the areas described in (B)(1), then that circuit instantly becomes a "small-appliance branch circuit", trying to comply with that code. You have a violation.

Simply put: Put circuits for counter/wall/fridge receptacles for (B)(1) on their own, and then sprinkle in your fixed appliances on their own dedicated or combined circuits after.

[This message has been edited by The_Judge (edited 05-22-2005).]

The_Judge ---

"A receptacle in a cabinet or behind an appliance (dishwasher) is a violation of (B)(2)."

I do not see these code prohibitions you give with regard to the wall/floor recepts.

In particular, recpts in appliance garages are on the small appliance circuts.

Judge, depending on what code you're on-GFI's service recpt's are needed in any closet, crawl, attic, roof where the HVAC guy stuffed a furnace, or ac.



George, 210.52 as a 'section' covers recpt's in dwellings. And part 'A' is all the other rooms of a house, part 'B' is kitchens, pantry, dining rm., etc. Anyway, right before this section splits into these parts, you have this: And it covers all in the 'section'

Then Part 'B' covers the two circuits required in 210.11(C)(1), and any from it that are part of the ones covered in part 'A', like walls in kitchen, pantry, breakfast room, dining room. And also the countertops they are intented for covered in part 'C'.


Then 210.52B(2)No other outlets

I believe in the 2005 code, it better defines the appliance garage issue. I'm not sure if it seperates them from these circuits too?

Either way, the appliance circuits rules apply to the DW/GB circuits, being "fastened in place". Another story all together.

[This message has been edited by e57 (edited 05-22-2005).]

Where does it state that receptacles in an attic need GFCI protection?

George, e57's reference to the main section 210.52 (before the "A") is the most accurate reason why receptacles in cabinets are not considered in (A) or (C).

In addition, let me add this: 210.52(B) is very specific regarding what SA circuits can feed.

Look at the exceptions to (B)(2). If receptacles concealed by appliances or cabinets were acceptable, why would the exceptions mention them? The items you see in the exceptions would directly violate the rule if not excepted from it.