ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area #12 wire Minimum?

Hello From Colorado!!!

Around here it is a big toss up as to whether you use #14 or not. If you are one of the great number of GC's doing track homes you do.

As for me, we only use #12, but the smallest houses we do are in the 5000sq.ft. range, and the voltage drop becomes a HUGE ISSUE.

Two years ago we wired a 15,000 sq.ft. house and we even had a few circuits that had to have #10 home runs. That was the ONLY house I have ever done with a 2000a service and CT can.(don't want to do it again either)

Once upon a time, drywallers used to measure, cut holes for boxes, and mount the sheets.
Now it seems they screw the corners (doing their darndest to push the box back into the wall), then blast the hole (usually incorrect) with a router or Rotozip.
In commercial work with tin stud walls, this is a big problem.

Does anyone still do it the other way? Is this router crap just out here in the land of the "wierdos", CA?

I usually spec a subpanel to a floor, at least, if the house goes over, say 3000 sq ft, or the service is at one end of a long ranch style home. Depends on expected load in that area as to what size and number or circuits for the subpanel. For that long ranch, a 125A 8-16 circuit MLO works great fed with a #2 SER cable. For locations, a utility room with adequate space for the loadcenter, or even in a guest bedroom door alcove (one that isn't used every day) seems to be approved by the builder and homeowners regularly. Painters scuff the cover and spray it the same color as everything else, or the homeowner finds some way to conceal it, if at all.

Like all the trades, drywallers come good and bad. Some of the guys that do the big customs are pretty good, and easy to get along with. Since I refuse to do tract houses (to make any money, you're almost forced to do minimum, barely legal, if legal work, and then try to make it up in volume) I like doing neat, clean, professional work we can be proud of, and have that reputation. So, I don't see the raggedy work done by some drywallers much anymore.

Ahh, I did buy a couple of those Rotozips for us, though They're great on plaster and lath walls. No lath shaking loose and knocking down whole sections of walls!!

Is this router crap just out here in the land of the "wierdos", CA?

same crew here, when they run out of the short 'zip' bits, they use full length ones and knaw up the wires too..

Must be the same bunch that travel the country! The other thing I see a lot is that many times only the inside of the box gets cut to and therefore the box sits behind the sheetrock instead of flush. If it's not caught before spackling and painting and then they are then cut properly the sheetrock doesn't go back without some more screws and then there's a whole lot of spot patching and painting to be done. Sure makes the Sparky look like the bad guy at trim-out time.

Bill

Those drywallers are here too. When I see them and thier long zip bits, I walk in with a double bitted ax. I then tell them if I have to fix or replace wiring because they cut of chewed it up this is what I will use to open up the walls to replace the wire. And I'll send you or your boss one hell of an extra bill. The ax seems to get thier attention. Have not had to use it yet.

Hey, I think I'd like to try that approach with some British plasterers!

So that's why they call it getting plastered!

Don't know if anyone else does this but we leave a nice neat 6" loop above our boxes when we cut in. If(sorry when) the drywallers hit the wires we have that loop there just in case.