ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Sidewire vs. Backwire...

Virgil,

That receptacle was the result of a loose screw and Aluminum wire.



Bill

hmmm...
after you've been around a while you come to realize what works and what doesn't, abiet statistical info.
I think everyone here has backstabbed the occasional device carrying a minimal load, and called it a day.
And probably seen their share of backstabbed boo-boo's too.
By the same token, many interacting codes have resulted in complete quagmires here, the end result, although compliant, seen objectively thru the eye of a proffessional bears scutiny.
But hey, it's our NEC, warts and all, the entire format screams "Question Authority",which is our right, from seasoned veteran to first day apprentice.
The manufacturing sector, however, is an entity that has us by the cookies. We, as a trade, have little input as to the complete garbadge marketed under the guise of trade tarrifs, and 17 NRTL's competing for the job of listing them.
Just think , why would the NRTL's no longer list #12 only for backstabbing, and not #14 ?

Allow me to start over then...

Mickky,
Backplugging Receptacles are Okey-dokey by me... In fact, they sell these that have no screws at all and you can save yourself some more money probably a good 10 cents per receptacle. Just be sure to strip the wire to proper lenghth, pull to test, and only use #14, solid wire.

This is not meant to be sarcastic in any way, I'm admitting to being wrong and I now gladly accept backplugging and will backplug the entire house I'm working on...hey it's a bid job... got to cut as many corners as possible...

And I'm going to return a customer's money for "unneccesary" work after I had replaced ALL of his backplugs with spec grades... (One HAD failed, too bad I didn't get a picture of it)

[This message has been edited by sparky66wv (edited 08-01-2001).]

You guys are taking this all way too personally! No one here is recommending anything, only admitting to ocassionally doing it. (Which, I might add, is approved by the most respected testing authority in the World)

You can't look that harshly at people following the code and UL listings. Maybe we should revisit the "Virgil comes Clean" series?

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 08-01-2001).]

Sparkys comment about #12 push-ins got me thinking...
Does anyone else remember when there were 2 push-in holes per screw?. Just think, you could connect 4 push-ins and 2 wrap arounds on each side, even for #12. Just hope your box was big enough.

Thanks, everyone (I think!) When I first started doing this, I thought that push-ins were agreat idea-fast, less space, etc. I always gave a tug to check, and then about a year ago, 2 receptacles failed the test with barely a pull. Avoided them ever since.

Hey Mickky,

Bet you'll think twice before asking a question around this town again!!

'66,

Is your viewpoint/dislike based on what you think is a high failure rate? or a safety concern? I have always thought UL was perhaps a little overcautious in their testing. If these things burn themselves free and stop working when heavily loaded/overloaded they might even be seen as safety devices?

I don't remember if I've ever seen one that had gotten to the condition shown in the picture. I'm thinking that they may stop working before they get that far.

Anyone?

I've had my share of problems with backstabbed receptacles in an industrial setting. Mostly flickering lights from bad connections made by going thru a backstabbed recep. I've seen bad connections with screw connections too. But a very low percentage compared to backstabbed.

Hi, Bill,

I hope you don't mind my stepping in on this one. The blow dryer wattage issue got mixed in with the back wiring only as a matter of "what does a UL listing really mean?".

Anyway, back wires do seem to burn clear. To me that they burn at all when not really overloaded is indicative of a poor contact. And it just may be that a poor contact was made during the installation.

I didn't think that '66 was suggesting that backstabbing leads to receptacles like the one in the fixture.

Backstabbing could lead to refrigerator failure and intermittent connections in receptacles - but that might only be if not properly installed in the first place. The low contact area is suspect in my mind.

Regardless, there are better ways. Lug and set screw like a circuit breaker, and clamp and screw like a GFCI receptacle are two superior methods.

A was mentioned, the plastic faces break off those receptacles often enough, particularly at the "U" ground, that one might suspect that UL doesn't really abuse these things before certifying them.