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What in Tarnation?
What in Tarnation?
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by timmp, September 10
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#222791 12/06/24 10:46 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,476
Likes: 3
Cat Servant
Member
Alas, it’s that time of year again.
Right now it’s 24F, or about -5C. It has been that way for the past two days. Not bad by Chicago standards, but definitely frigid for Arkansas.
And, right on cue . . . I awoke this morning to see a neighbors’ house burning. Maybe six doors down. I can’t say I’m surprised.
Houses on this street were built in 1957. Single-story, ranch-style, simple wood frame construction. Wired with the silver cloth & paper covered Romex, no ground wires, and six of our beloved FPE breakers. NO main or exterior means of disconnect.

When I bought my house, I found some disturbing things. Some have “always” been wrong, while others have only recently become code violations:
— Panel was installed in a clothes closet (240.24(D));
— Panel had been stuffed with “skinny” breakers, giving a total of one 2-pole (range) and seven 1-pole breakers. That’s “Nine flips of the hand” to shut down the power (230.71);
— 20-amp breakers supplied #14 wire (240.4(d)(4));
— Panel was installed an interior closet, fed direct from the service drop by about twenty feet of #6 Romex (230.70(A)(1));
— That service feeder was exposed to / nearly struck by numerous nails driven in to install paneling on the walls (230.50(B)(1)); 300.4(B)(2);
— Every receptacle had been replaced with a 3-prong type, though there were no ground wires present (250.130(C));
— The “water bond” grounding wire had been cut / broken (250.64(B));
— There was no ground rod (250.53(D)(2));
— A circuit for a large window air conditioner had been added. The Romex was dragged through the crawl space (no support or protection in a decidedly wet location), exited out a crawl space vent, ran up the outside of the wall, then fed through a hole in the wall to a new receptacle (334.12(B); 334.30;
— NO disconnecting means at the service drop (230.85(A)(1));
— Most disturbing of all: Silvery cloth Romex arrived at the switches and receptacles. White vinyl Romex exited the panel. In the attic (area nearest the panel) I found charring. Clearly there had been a fire. Here were several “flying splices” where new Romex connected to old Romex.

Looking at the above list, I can break the issues down this way:
— Four of the issues were present when the house was built, The practices were arguably allowed at the time.
— One, possibly two, was the result of “wear and tear”;
— One was unintended and unknown; and,
— Five were deliberate, done as “improvements” or repairs.

In the broader sense, about half these issues were the result of the original contractor doing “code minimum” work. The other half were the result of how our lives have changed over the years. To be fair, the nature of the original construction does not make it easy to perform “proper” upgrades.

Returning to the start of this story: FIRE. Looking about the neighborhood I find many cleared foundations where fire had destroyed the house. I find many more houses where there are visible signs of previous attic fires. I see a pattern here.
I speculate that these fires generally start in the attic — where a fire won’t be readily apparent until it’s well established — and are likely caused by the old Romex being overloaded.
Alright, I concede. These can fairly be called “electrical” fires. While age plays a factor, the main issue is the wiring being over-used. It was being asked to do far more than even imagined by the designer. Those “improvements” are the source of the fires.

Finally, it’s worth pointing out that the heaviest, most demanding load we’re ever likely to put on a household circuit is a SPACE HEATER. Even if the space heater is used properly, it will draw a lot of power for extended periods. Every connection, every splice will get as hot as it ever will.
It’s only December 6. We have a whole winter ahead.

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renosteinke #222794 12/09/24 09:57 AM
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 4
L
New Member
Wow, I will keep it in mind.

renosteinke #222795 12/10/24 09:50 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,413
Likes: 9
Member
Reno,

Yes, there are situations as you described, probably all over the country with 'aged' properties.

I come across some of what you described, 'closet' panels, an occasional bathroom panel, and butchered wiring.

Yes, the 'next size' up circuit breaker issue, is the same as the 'older days' of the 30 amp plug fuses!

And I agree that the 'space heater' issue does put 'strain' on the circuit wiring, splices and devices. However, appliance usage is not within the realm of the NEC, nor the Inspectors, or Licensed Electrical Contractors.


John
renosteinke #222879 07/26/25 01:21 AM
Joined: Dec 2024
Posts: 2
J
New Member
Originally Posted by renosteinke
Alas, it’s that time of year again.
Right now it’s 24F, or about -5C. It has been that way for the past two days. Not bad by Chicago standards, but definitely frigid for Arkansas.
And, right on cue . . . I awoke this morning to see a neighbors’ house burning. Maybe six doors down. I can’t say I’m surprised.
Houses on this street were built in 1957. Single-story, ranch-style, simple wood frame construction. Wired with the silver cloth & paper covered Romex, no ground wires, and six of our beloved FPE breakers. NO main or exterior means of disconnect.
Fire risks in electrical installations often stem from poor signal isolation or control line faults. Using components like the PCA9517ADP, an I²C buffer with level shifting and isolation capabilities, can help maintain communication integrity between devices while preventing overloads that may contribute to overheating. It’s especially useful in systems where multiple microcontrollers or sensors are linked across varying voltage domains.

When I bought my house, I found some disturbing things. Some have “always” been wrong, while others have only recently become code violations:
— Panel was installed in a clothes closet (240.24(D));
— Panel had been stuffed with “skinny” breakers, giving a total of one 2-pole (range) and seven 1-pole breakers. That’s “Nine flips of the hand” to shut down the power (230.71);
— 20-amp breakers supplied #14 wire (240.4(d)(4));
— Panel was installed an interior closet, fed direct from the service drop by about twenty feet of #6 Romex (230.70(A)(1));
— That service feeder was exposed to / nearly struck by numerous nails driven in to install paneling on the walls (230.50(B)(1)); 300.4(B)(2);
— Every receptacle had been replaced with a 3-prong type, though there were no ground wires present (250.130(C));
— The “water bond” grounding wire had been cut / broken (250.64(B));
— There was no ground rod (250.53(D)(2));
— A circuit for a large window air conditioner had been added. The Romex was dragged through the crawl space (no support or protection in a decidedly wet location), exited out a crawl space vent, ran up the outside of the wall, then fed through a hole in the wall to a new receptacle (334.12(B); 334.30;
— NO disconnecting means at the service drop (230.85(A)(1));
— Most disturbing of all: Silvery cloth Romex arrived at the switches and receptacles. White vinyl Romex exited the panel. In the attic (area nearest the panel) I found charring. Clearly there had been a fire. Here were several “flying splices” where new Romex connected to old Romex.

Looking at the above list, I can break the issues down this way:
— Four of the issues were present when the house was built, The practices were arguably allowed at the time.
— One, possibly two, was the result of “wear and tear”;
— One was unintended and unknown; and,
— Five were deliberate, done as “improvements” or repairs.

In the broader sense, about half these issues were the result of the original contractor doing “code minimum” work. The other half were the result of how our lives have changed over the years. To be fair, the nature of the original construction does not make it easy to perform “proper” upgrades.

Returning to the start of this story: FIRE. Looking about the neighborhood I find many cleared foundations where fire had destroyed the house. I find many more houses where there are visible signs of previous attic fires. I see a pattern here.
I speculate that these fires generally start in the attic — where a fire won’t be readily apparent until it’s well established — and are likely caused by the old Romex being overloaded.
Alright, I concede. These can fairly be called “electrical” fires. While age plays a factor, the main issue is the wiring being over-used. It was being asked to do far more than even imagined by the designer. Those “improvements” are the source of the fires.

Finally, it’s worth pointing out that the heaviest, most demanding load we’re ever likely to put on a household circuit is a SPACE HEATER. Even if the space heater is used properly, it will draw a lot of power for extended periods. Every connection, every splice will get as hot as it ever will.
It’s only December 6. We have a whole winter ahead.
You're absolutely right, aging infrastructure combined with modern load demands like space heaters is a dangerous mix. Your breakdown of code violations and how they developed over time really highlights the importance of proper upgrades, not just patchwork fixes. Sadly, many homes share this hidden fire risk.


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