ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Safety at heights?
by gfretwell - 04/23/24 03:03 PM
Old low volt E10 sockets - supplier or alternative
by gfretwell - 04/21/24 11:20 AM
Do we need grounding?
by gfretwell - 04/06/24 08:32 PM
UL 508A SPACING
by tortuga - 03/30/24 07:39 PM
New in the Gallery:
This is a new one
This is a new one
by timmp, September 24
Few pics I found
Few pics I found
by timmp, August 15
Who's Online Now
1 members (Scott35), 444 guests, and 35 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 3
Cat Servant
Member
You never know what will show up at your parts house!

I went to one yesterday and the clerk showed me a new item. Ideal is selling glorified rubber bands to put around the terminals of devices (receptacles, switches, etc.) A quick & easy substitute for the usual multiple wraps of tape.

Now that brings up the old debate of what, if anything, wrapping a receptacle in tape accomplishes. I put that discussion in the same category of the debate over how to trim zip-ties: maintenance men swear by one answer, electricians another. Personally, I maintain that wrapping your devices is meaningless unless you're doing something wrong. (Working hot? Poor stranded wire technique)

In any event, Ideal's "ArmourBand" is a nice, fat silicone rubber band sized to neatly snap over the backs of devices to do whatever it is that wraps of electrical tape do. The cynic in me predicts a drive in the next code cycle to start requiring this some day. Even without a code change, there are sure to be folks who will try to enforce this "new requirement." Watch it happen.
PDF attached.

Attached Images
Attached PDF document
IDEAL_ArmourBand.pdf (3.39 MB, 47 downloads)
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,931
Likes: 34
G
Member
I agree wrapping receptacles in tape is a sign of marginally qualified or unqualified installers. It can end up being a sticky mess with some brands of tape. Other brands of tape get hard and flake off.
The band is an interesting idea but if you are following 70e and not working hot, totally unnecessary with a decent level of workmanship.

As for the tywraps. IBM had an easy answer. The tails sticking out become an eye hazard and we were required to cut them flush. The best answer is a gun that tensions and cuts the tail in one motion but most folks don't have one.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 764
K
Member
Seems like a great idea, but unless but, unless I buy them in quantities of 1000 to get the cost down to about .33 each, I can't seem to justify their use at this time. Maybe pricing will come down eventually.👍

Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 943
Likes: 2
N
Member
Originally Posted by gfretwell
I agree wrapping receptacles in tape is a sign of marginally qualified or unqualified installers. It can end up being a sticky mess with some brands of tape. Other brands of tape get hard and flake off.
The band is an interesting idea but if you are following 70e and not working hot, totally unnecessary with a decent level of workmanship.

As for the tywraps. IBM had an easy answer. The tails sticking out become an eye hazard and we were required to cut them flush. The best answer is a gun that tensions and cuts the tail in one motion but most folks don't have one.


Not trimming the tails properly leads to skin tears, the least someone can do is use flush cutters.

Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 12
G
Member
Hi all,
Sorry for a late reply but I have a good story to go with this post.
I was the main electrician for a large manufacturer, I got called because a field service guy said sparks flew and he melted the tip off of one of his test leads. He was checking low voltage on a communication cable between sections of a piece of equipment. I got there within a few minutes of the call but EHS, security, managers you name it were already
there. So I started checking and could not find anything to explain what happened, I kept asking questions and found he used a 4 sq. box with a receptacle as a ground source. the box had no damage but I pulled the cover and saw what happened. He was not looking when he put the lead on the box and stuck it in one of the manufactured holes and hit a live terminal on a twistlock recep. Thought someone was going to push for taping the receptacles but never said anything.

Jeff

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 3
Cat Servant
Member
It seems that as soon as you make something fool-proof, they come out with a better fool.
I’ve never seen a convincing explanation of the little holes in most metal boxes. Vague “Aid to manufacturing” answers seem incomplete at best.

These little holes have proven useful (on older boxes) for anchoring grounding pigtail screws. On rare occasions they’ve been useful for mounting the boxes. (Let’s not re-open the debate over screw types here!)

On their ‘minus’ side of the ledger, the holes have let in all sorts of problems. I’ve seen the boxes fill with metal shavings when mounted near metalworking tools. I’ve found spiders, wasps, and other vermin happily at home within. Many times I’ve found the boxes filled with sawdust. Once I found the holes used to tie off a grounding pigtail. Steel wires have been laced through the holes to mount the boxes in place.

Personally, I find the whole “wrap your devices” debate to be entertaining. Of all the details in mounting receptacles — pigtail length, insulation stripping, wire attachment, packing wires into the box, etc. — wrapping is the last of my concerns. Yet ours is a market that answers customer demand, and that someone sees enough market to develop a purpose-made product is proof that capitalism isn’t completely dead.

No matter. If past experience is any guide, I predict electrical and home inspection fora will see not only a revival of the “to wrap or not” debate, but that there will be ID-10-T’s who assert wrapping is mandatory, and you’re required to use the manufactured product.

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,382
Likes: 7
Member
Ahhh...reference violation of good old 110.3 (b) ??


John
Joined: Oct 2005
Posts: 12
G
Member
I am not a fan of taping but less of a fan of people pushing their ideas/ methods on others, and even less are the non trades person aka weekend warrior or someone who once wired their basement trying to push what they did.
I worked at a large mfg. plant and had plenty of the last group.
I'll get off my soapbox now,theres not a lot of room to move around up here.
You could be first to market a pre-taped receptacle.

Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445
Likes: 3
Cat Servant
Member
Could be, HotLine.
Heaven knows we’ve all had our encounters with folks who insisted things be done “their” way. Which I find interesting, because “code” very often doesn’t say what folks think it says. Nor, for that matter, does “code” pedantry leave any room for dealing with reality.
(Some day I’ll discuss my counterfeit panel cover).

One of the most annoying types are those who insist that if a listed widget exists, you MUST use said widget. For this thread I stress: Just because Ideal makes these glorified rubber bands it does NOT follow that you must use them, or that you must wrap your devices at all.
Indeed, considering that there are no code requirements or NEMA specifications, I can tell you from experience that UL would evaluate such a product only to see if using it posed any new hazards. That is, they would sail through the lab with only a cursory hi-pot test.

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,382
Likes: 7
Member
Reno,

You said....
"No matter. If past experience is any guide, I predict electrical and home inspection fora will see not only a revival of the “to wrap or not” debate, but that there will be ID-10-T’s who assert wrapping is mandatory, and you’re required to use the manufactured product."

Someone, somewhere, sooner or later will do a "110.3 B" on a red sticker.

That's all I meant.


John
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5