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Joined: Sep 2002
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When I went to Germany for the 1st time in 2006 visiting relatives, we went into France briefly & had the opportunity to view the French outlets, & have to admit liked them better then the German model.

Joined: Jul 2002
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DSK,
Those aren't mains-rated connectors, they look like a copy of the Neutrik Speakon connectors used for PA
Amplifiers.
Even the Neutrik ones state that they should only be used on 100V speaker systems.

Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,498
T
Member
Originally Posted by Trumpy
DSK,
Those aren't mains-rated connectors, they look like a copy of the Neutrik Speakon connectors used for PA
Amplifiers.
Even the Neutrik ones state that they should only be used on 100V speaker systems.

Neutrik Powercon is rated for mains voltage but mustn't be plugged/unplugged under load.

Joined: Dec 2002
Posts: 1,253
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djk Offline
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I don’t think we will ever see a radical departure from CEE 7, but just a slide towards either Schuko or the Belgian/French design being the de facto EU norm in the Denmark and Italy. The costs and inconvenience are too high and the standard is well developed and robust.

The mandating of RCDs has really eliminated many of the serious risks around grounding, so I’m sure the Danish system can just survive. Most grounded major appliances also don’t tend to get moved around much.

The bigger issue might be with growing online retail. It’s becoming a slight issue here where appliances are arriving with CEE 7/7 plugs and being used long term with adaptors.

We already have a system of converter plugs, which the continental plug is fitted inside, effectively turning them into BS1363 fused plugs, and they can only be removed with the use of a tool. These are intended to be permanent. They’re pretty good solutions when fitted on on CEE 7/16 (Europlug) and even CEE 7/17 (non grounded plugs used on say vacuums and hairdryers) if a but bulky, however on grounded Schuko, especially the where the cable exit is at a right angle, they’re just huge, bulky and too unwieldy and it’s better to simply change the plug.

I honestly don’t see BS1363 being changed here. The amount of hassle involved simply isn’t worth it and as a system it is very solid and well established. You don’t ever find anything else on the wall and there’s no ambiguity about grounding or polarity as the legacy two pin plugs are long, long gone and backwards compatibility was deliberately eliminated by the current standard.

We’ve a slight issue with CE marking, but only if manufacturers no longer seek it for smart plugs, phone chargers etc. It is being replaced in the UK with a UKCA mark since Brexit, but effectively it’s the same thing anyway. It’s very likely most of those devices will continue to be CE approved anyway.

The issue is Ireland can’t import non CE devices, so we might have a problem in years ahead with some of those plug in devices, unless we can get a derogation for them, which to be quite honest would be a lot less hassle than changing millions of sockets…

The UK may ultimately end up just accepting CE regardless as I have a feeling the approach they’re taking is just going to become rather unnecessarily expensive and is just a flag waving exercise and they’re not leaving CENELEC. My sense is they’ll probably in the end just cooperate in technical matters like Switzerland or Norway does. There’s politics and there’s pragmatic reality.

Last edited by djk; 04/14/22 07:36 AM.
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 80
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Originally Posted by Texas_Ranger
I keep reading that, yet it's all hearsay. I do know two things:
1) Schuko is officially rated for 16 A AC or 10 A DC, which can be written as either 10-/16~ or just 10/16
2) Some very old Schuko sockets are only marked 10 A/250 V.

I wouldn't exclude the possibility that the alleged 10 A continuous/16 A short-term rating is a simple misunderstanding of the abbreviated DC/AC rating.
A 10A socket will often survive 16A for a short time (not-uncommonly an hour or two, at least for a one-off test), provided there are no other points of elevated resistance (poor terminations, corrosion etc.); although by the same logic, a 16A socket should briefly survive around 25A. I've tested rewireable Australian plugs and sockets (normally rated at 10A, but the only difference from the 15A version is earth pin width) up to 24A (with 1.5mm^2 flex as standard for 15A) without melting down.

I recently saw one YouTube comment referring to people as "idiots" for running 3kW heaters through BS 1363 sockets; harsh much? crazy Not only does that diminish the very meaning of the word "idiot", but then why are 3kW workshop heaters still readily available with a 13A plug? (It was claimed that the sockets are no longer built for sustained full load, since 3kW heaters became uncommon in the household.) Some vendors do recommend hard-wiring via a 20A fused spur for "long term" use, but I gather that the fuse may be more to blame than the plug itself. (I saw one claim of BS 1362 fuses only being rated for 1,000 hours at full load, which to me seems pitiful... And under moderate overloads, say 20A, the fuse can get hot enough to melt thermoplastic plugs.)

As you may gather, I have a significant aversion to "cop-outs" around the extent of usage; observing their semi-regular delivery after-the-fact in attempts to downplay product defects, I only accept differentiation between better and worse "grades" of product where the usage difference (and the difference in manufacturing cost!) is substantive enough to justify it.

Anyhow, in my experience competently-wired Australian plugs will normally remain cool to the touch while passing 10A (as can be expected from an essentially 15A design). Molded plugs are as iffy as they are everywhere else (frameless NEMA types notwithstanding).

Last edited by LongRunner; 08/27/22 11:10 AM.
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dsk Offline
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Here we have schuko sockets, and our water (storage) heater is plugged in to one of those, it is a 2 kW load, and that has been working well for many years, but if I buy a new one today, I had to skip the plug, and have fixed wiring trough a safety switch. That is because that sometimes it is getting hot, In those cases I have seen it has been the molded plug that is the problem. .. so OK it is safer with the new requirement.

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Originally Posted by LongRunner
A 10A socket will often survive 16A for a short time (not-uncommonly an hour or two, at least for a one-off test), provided there are no other points of elevated resistance (poor terminations, corrosion etc.); although by the same logic, a 16A socket should briefly survive around 25A. I've tested rewireable Australian plugs and sockets (normally rated at 10A, but the only difference from the 15A version is earth pin width) up to 24A (with 1.5mm^2 flex as standard for 15A) without melting down.

This sort of attitude is what starts house fires, yes it is a 10A socket-outlet, but what size is the wiring in behind it, how many other loads are on it and what size and type of protection is afforded to the circuit at its supplying switchboard?

Longrunner,
You aren't a qualified electrician, you have not sat the regulation and theory exams that state that your advice means anything.
Once you do that, I'd be more than open to your opinions.
Until then.........

Joined: May 2015
Posts: 80
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I was NOT advising that anyone exceed the rating in use. I only apply such overloads as controlled, supervised tests; I figured this could work as a possible in-principle explanation for a split long-term/short-term current rating, but I don't think that actually applies to Schuko anyway.

Incidentally, it's my father (who was an electrician) who made an adapter with a 10A plug and 15A socket; I disbanded it. I'm the last person you'll find defending double-adapters, I never buy them myself; and I test that the circuit breaker works in nearly every power-board I obtain.

Last edited by LongRunner; 08/28/22 10:42 AM.
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Most things should be tested at much higher loads than the rating. That is the nature of testing. I will say all receptacles in the US are not created equal. We have several grades of the 15 amp 5-15 receptacle and all carry the NRTL stamp of approval but some are marginal at best at 80% of the rated load (the NEC imposed limit for cord and plug equipment) and others would handle far greater than the 15a they are rated for. As in most things, you get what you are willing to pay for. I know I had problems with the receptacles installed in this house when I moved in and I bought a big box of commercial grade receptacles and switches. After an afternoon of screwdriver work my problems went away. Some were just old, others were probably junk when they were installed.


Greg Fretwell
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