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Greenhouse #219206
03/19/18 07:19 PM
03/19/18 07:19 PM
R
Rabbit  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 64
Kingsport Tennessee
OK I know it's been years since I posted here, been crazy.

I was called last week to price correcting a few code violations. Yeah.

2.5 acres of greenhouse equipped with all European components. Transfer switch, panels, frequency inverter, control panels, actuator motors and literally miles of cable.

AHJ is balking on all of it including 60 kw back-up generator. No UL listings. This was all purchased as a package and the previous contractor hooked to it without a permit. (I know)

Anyone had any experience with something like this? I,m guessing close to six figures to fix this.

The owner is considering buying an electric driven generator, so technically the systems will be off grid. Yes I'm serious.

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Re: Greenhouse [Re: Rabbit] #219207
03/19/18 11:06 PM
03/19/18 11:06 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,323
Estero,Fl,usa
On grid or off grid, you still have to meet the code the AHJ enforces.
If the MG set (electrically driven generator) is connected to the grid, it is a grid tied system anyway, just a separately derived system, similar to going through a transformer. Make sure you follow the SDS rules, mostly grounding issues.
As for the listing, or lack thereof, you may be stuck if you are not willing to have it evaluated. My guess is new equipment might end up being cheaper than that process.
First be sure it was not listed by one of the European NRTLs recognized here (TUV is probably the only one)
The CE mark is pretty meaningless in this discussion. It is a totally different standard.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Greenhouse [Re: Rabbit] #219208
03/20/18 06:33 AM
03/20/18 06:33 AM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,050
Brick, NJ USA
A few thoughts,

One step would be contacting UL, or any other testing/certification agency to determine the costs to have this equipment certified.

As Greg mentioned, check the equipment for any labels/listings.

After determining the cost to have it certified, compare with cost to replace.

A recent UL field cert for equipment here was about $20k when all was said and done. This client was aware that the equipment was NOT UL when it was purchased, and was not too concerned of the cost.


John
Re: Greenhouse [Re: Rabbit] #219209
03/20/18 05:02 PM
03/20/18 05:02 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,323
Estero,Fl,usa
I am not sure how field evaluation works but we had a guy at one of our contractor seminars who was making some of the first generation salt water pool chlorine generators and he said U/L was horrendous. They kept blowing up his prototypes and asking for more. This was destructive testing. I assume field evaluation of existing equipment is not like that.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Greenhouse [Re: Rabbit] #219210
03/20/18 07:23 PM
03/20/18 07:23 PM
R
Rabbit  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2002
Posts: 64
Kingsport Tennessee
Thanks everyone. Invaluable advise. Promise to come around more.

Re: Greenhouse [Re: Rabbit] #219211
03/22/18 08:08 AM
03/22/18 08:08 AM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,050
Brick, NJ USA
Greg:
RE: The field eval mentioned in my above post...

It was three packaging machines, for a large on-line operation. These exact machines were previously installed (and field tested) at their other area locations. Three (3) locations in an adjacent town.

The field evaluation was a multi day operation, and labels were affixed. Units were 480 volt, 3 phase, plug-in, and 120/20 amp plug-in.


I was not present during the cert, but got copies to put in the job files. Foreman said it was "painless".


John
Re: Greenhouse [Re: Rabbit] #219213
03/24/18 01:10 AM
03/24/18 01:10 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,323
Estero,Fl,usa
Field tested by a NRTL?
I suppose a lot depends on what they are testing. If this is assembled from U/R parts and they are only looking at the assembly methods it should not be that complicated but if the actual equipment is foreign and never evaluated at the component level there is no way the field test can be as extensive as the lab test. I have to say, I have only heard people talk about this. I never actually watched it.
OTOH, under a lot of pressure, I did certify a lot of stuff at the Ca D Zan (Ringling Mansion/Museum) in Sarasota without any protocols in place at all. This was antique equipment and for the most part I just assumed if it had not burned up in the last 70 years, it would last 70 more wink
I mostly was looking at the condition of the insulation, security of the attachments, chafing and other hardware issues. A lot of this was restored under supervision of the engineering firm the state hired. When possible they used listed components and modern fixture wire but the things you could see were original.
The guy I worked for in Tallahassee just told me "make sure it is safe" when I asked him what my job was.
It may have been the most interesting thing I have done in any of my careers.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Greenhouse [Re: Rabbit] #219215
03/26/18 02:45 PM
03/26/18 02:45 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,050
Brick, NJ USA
Greg:

AFAIK, this is equipment made in the USA, and was custom modified for the client. This client has the same equipment in 3 other centers here in NJ.

I agree with you about "make sure it's safe"


John
Re: Greenhouse [Re: Rabbit] #219216
03/27/18 06:16 AM
03/27/18 06:16 AM
G
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 963
Chicago Illinois USA
I agree with Greg...make sure it's safe.
The fact that something has been done the same way previously doesn't guarantee that it's right.

NASA showed us a great example of that with the Challenger space shuttle.


Ghost307

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