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Re: 2017 NEC Changes [Re: HotLine1] #218897 12/17/17 09:46 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,383
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sparky Offline
Member
Originally Posted by HotLine1
~s~
It’s been a while, so.....hello & welcome!!

The torque wrench thing will create debate, as you infer about calibrate.

I have to think about you second post a little bit

The third has my head spinning.



Good to read you as well HotOne .

Yeah the whole calibration thing just went off into the stratosphere here.

Our Green Mountain inspector guild is graced now and then by special guests , one of which was no other than Mr Jeff Sargent of npfa fame.

So he asks how many of us still turn a tool in the field to raise our right hand, then asks if that's our company torque wrench

lotta ..umhhhh...errrs....ahhhs.... from the audience.

Ever seeking compliance, we all go put a torque wrench , or torque wrench(s) in our rigs the next day

All fine and well until one savvy ahj asks 'how old is that thing?'

followed by a lotta 'i dunnos'....

the idea of calibration is thrown out

but no, we can't calibrate them ourselves, because we're not certified to calibrate them

so now we all search for certified calibrators

only to find it may costs more than the tool itself

One for the 'no good deed' files.....

~S~

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: 2017 NEC Changes [Re: luckyshadow] #218900 12/17/17 10:47 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,121
HotLine1 Offline
Member
`s`
Yes there are instances where ‘testing’, ‘calibration’, or documentation’s can cost more than replacements.

Think about a torque wrench from a store similar to Harbor Freight, that is inexpensive and meets the needs of the tradesman. Out of the box, is it ‘calibrated’?? How does the tradesman know? OK, how about a similar tool from Grainger?? Or, how about one from your local supply house??

No derogatory comments are interred to any of the retailers above.


John
Re: 2017 NEC Changes [Re: luckyshadow] #218903 12/18/17 12:03 PM
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gfretwell Offline
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Back before the country was "Walmarted" (AKA you only get the quality you pay for) there was a big push for ISO 9000 that required documented processes for everything and the calibration of test equipment was a big part of that for the field. Just about the time all of that infrastructure was in place, the bean counters figured out the number of customers who would actually pay for that quality were far out numbered by those who wanted something just barley good enough to get the job done. I really do not trust that a tool from an offshore discount tool company even reaches that standard. I have one of those Harbor Fright laser pointed IR guns and all I can say is the laser is good for teasing the dog. The gun is horribly inaccurate. There is no way I would trust a torque wrench from those people.


Greg Fretwell
Re: 2017 NEC Changes [Re: luckyshadow] #218904 12/18/17 07:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
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sparky Offline
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Well i guess i'm just as guilty Greg

I went out and bought a cheap HD Torque wrench , and toddled off to use it on normal everyday things like meters and panel terminals (i haven't quite gotten down to device terminals as yet)

Only to find that, they're all kinda feeling 1/2 tightened down to me

Perhaps i've been cranking down on stuff for decades , but it just doesn't feel tight to me

But it gets better.....

Now i'm actually finding my readers (i hide them everywhere, it;s a denial thing) to figure the specs, and read that some equipment requires annual re-torquing

How that's going to happen out here in God's country is anyone's guess

~S~

Re: 2017 NEC Changes [Re: luckyshadow] #218905 12/18/17 09:49 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,121
HotLine1 Offline
Member
Greg

I hear you loud and clear, and agree 100%. You get what you pay for.

~s~
Yes, with the spec torque, things seem loose; however the more you use the torque wrench, the ‘Normal’ feel will come back to you.

I remember. Few broken terminals in 200 amp meter cabinets!!

Last edited by HotLine1; 12/19/17 06:52 PM. Reason: Inserted the missing ‘l’ in feel

John
Re: 2017 NEC Changes [Re: luckyshadow] #218906 12/19/17 06:56 AM
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sparky Offline
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Yeah i suppose i'll get comfortable sooner or later HotOne, i guess it'll chalk it up to another 'old dog new tricks' deal and stop howlin 'bout it smile ~S~

Re: 2017 NEC Changes [Re: luckyshadow] #218916 12/20/17 11:26 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 315
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luckyshadow Offline OP
Member
Yes the torque requirement has the potential to become a real pain in the butt, both for those who will follow it and those who have to enforce it !

Another section I find to be helpful to the AHJ is 110.3(C) The NEC has now clarified who is to perform the field listing and labeling of questionable equipment. There has been numerous times I required equipment to be field listed /labeled and the EC has questioned by who and why only by those listed on osha.gov.

Re: 2017 NEC Changes [Re: luckyshadow] #218922 12/20/17 06:47 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,383
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sparky Offline
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That didn't occur to me , good Lord this sure can become complex....~S~

Re: 2017 NEC Changes [Re: luckyshadow] #218923 12/20/17 08:28 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,121
HotLine1 Offline
Member
Yes, field listing/labeling, by UL, or another recognized provider is required by AHJs on items that are not ‘labeled’.

A recent field evaluation of five identical custom packaging machines, generated a field label n each, and 27 pages each of data. 2 days on site, $26.5k total. Interesting, that these machines are at 2 other locations, and both of those had the same evaluation. BTW, it was required by the client, not the EC.


John
Re: 2017 NEC Changes [Re: luckyshadow] #218929 12/21/17 02:29 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 315
L
luckyshadow Offline OP
Member
I can not tell you how many dental chairs I have required to be field listed and labeled ..

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