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TRUE POWER #218275
03/07/17 02:14 PM
03/07/17 02:14 PM
T
TRUE POWER  Offline OP
New Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7
Grand Cayman
Hello Guys
A little help here, I know what I need but in achieving it is my problem. I need a whole house TVSS which have a 120V load side which I would connect to a shunt trip main plug in breaker.

My client need his house to be protected from surge but if the surge protector fail he need the power off.

This would similar to smoke detector and elevator shunt trio breaker.

all help welcome.

Larry

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: TRUE POWER [Re: TRUE POWER] #218276
03/08/17 05:19 AM
03/08/17 05:19 AM
S
sparkyinak  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,334
Alaska
Interesting customer. I can't think of any particular brand but if you find one with a dry contact rated for the voltage that closes on alarm and replace the main with a shunt breaker that be the simplist I think being a red application, industrial grade stuff may be out of their price range


"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
Re: TRUE POWER [Re: TRUE POWER] #218277
03/08/17 05:54 AM
03/08/17 05:54 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,242
Estero,Fl,usa
I have never seen a residential smoke alarm that has a relay in it but you may be able to find a multistation one that you could hack a relay into on the remote circuit. It might be worth talking to Kidde or one of the other manufacturers to see if they offer such a relay unit


Greg Fretwell
Re: TRUE POWER [Re: TRUE POWER] #218278
03/08/17 01:13 PM
03/08/17 01:13 PM
T
TRUE POWER  Offline OP
New Member
Joined: Apr 2005
Posts: 7
Grand Cayman
Hello Greg / Sparky
Thanks for your post, in short what I am looking is a whole house surge protector that is able to operate the shunt trip main breaker which we will install.I am not sure if there is anything like that on the market.

Larry

Re: TRUE POWER [Re: TRUE POWER] #218279
03/08/17 02:48 PM
03/08/17 02:48 PM
L
LarryC  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 783
Winchester, NH, US
So your customer wants a whole house surge protector which will shut off power if "X" happens.

What is "X"?

Failure of surge protector?
Surge is above a certain value?
Difference between voltages of phases?
Over voltage? Under voltage?

In the industrial control world there are devices that have contacts that operate when certain conditions are met. For example, under/over voltage relays and TVS units that signal when a module has failed.

Do they want the power to be switched off and stay off? That could lead to some unpleasant consequences. Flooded basements, frozen pipes, thawed freezer, warm refrigerator, triggered alarm systems, etc.

You might want to go back to the customer and find out exactly what they are trying to protect. Point of use protection might make more sense.

Another Larry

Re: TRUE POWER [Re: TRUE POWER] #218280
03/08/17 07:36 PM
03/08/17 07:36 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,242
Estero,Fl,usa
I am confused. The surge has already come and gone, taking what it could with it. Why drop power then?
These things are measured in microseconds if not nanoseconds. You are never going to get a shunt trip to go that fast.

Sorry about the "alarm" thing.


Greg Fretwell
Re: TRUE POWER [Re: TRUE POWER] #218281
03/08/17 07:41 PM
03/08/17 07:41 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,985
Brick, NJ USA
OK, a quick look in the WW Grainger catalog (Book)
Page 272, Vol 407

Item 13W846, single phase 120v
Item 13W847, 3 phase

Both have audible alarm, dry contacts, etc.

Pricing is not avail in Catalog, go on WWG.com

They should ship to Cayman



John
Re: TRUE POWER [Re: HotLine1] #218282
03/09/17 03:56 AM
03/09/17 03:56 AM
S
sparkyinak  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,334
Alaska
Good call John. I also agree with Larry too. We are not sure what the customer wants the config. I'm not abvocating don't install it or sell what you can sell. What I am saying it what like Larry is saying that you may not get what the customer is invisioning he/she's is going to happen on the next surge. I'd get the data, explain it like Larry explained, and if the custom still wants it, hook em up but put it in the bill that if you don't think it will work like your customer thinks it will, put on the bill that your not liable if it don't work like the customer thinks it will. The customer is not always right. Especially when it comes to electricty


"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
Re: TRUE POWER [Re: TRUE POWER] #218283
03/09/17 11:42 AM
03/09/17 11:42 AM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,985
Brick, NJ USA
I agree with all the comments from you guys 100%, as I am not 'big' on solutions that have limited information provided.

Clients (customers) may have high expectations on what they 'think' they want installed, but more than likely have no insight into a proposed method.

The issues of liability, and the proliferation of litigation here require very careful, professionally prepared documentation.



John
Re: TRUE POWER [Re: TRUE POWER] #218285
03/10/17 01:42 AM
03/10/17 01:42 AM
J
JoeTestingEngr  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2005
Posts: 794
Chicago, Il.
I can't imagine tripping the main for a loss of surge protection. I would definitely consider it upon detection of a lifted Neutral. Alarming on a loss of surge protection is a good idea.
Joe

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