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#214349 - 11/18/14 11:38 PM Help with Article 680 regarding self contained spa  
BigB  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 719
Tucson, AZ USA
680.40 tells us that spas and hot tubs shall comply with parts I and IV of article 680.
680.42 tells us that outdoor installations of spas and hot tubs shall comply with parts I and II. I interpret this to mean the installation shall comply with 680.26(2)(a) regarding equipotential bonding of steel reinforcing within the poured slab that the spa sits on. So am I correct that a new spa installation shall have a #8 GEC attached to the steel before the concrete is poured, to be bonded to the unit at installation?


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#214352 - 11/19/14 09:50 AM Re: Help with Article 680 regarding self contained spa [Re: BigB]  
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 608
massachusetts
Depends on the code cycle your on. 2005 and 2008 required the #8 as you describe...2011 also, but a TIA was issued by the NFPA and in 2014 if the Tub is set at 28inchs above the slab, no #8 bond is required.


#214353 - 11/19/14 11:03 AM Re: Help with Article 680 regarding self contained spa [Re: BigB]  
BigB  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 719
Tucson, AZ USA
Doesn't a TIA have to be adopted by each municipality? My city adopted the 2011 in it's entirety with no amendments save for a couple of existing amendments we have had for many years.


#214355 - 11/19/14 11:48 AM Re: Help with Article 680 regarding self contained spa [Re: BigB]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,810
Brick, NJ USA
A TIA is an amendment to the model code. IF a model code is adopted by a municipality/state, then the TIA is inclusive within that adopted code. A muni/state may amend the model code to exclude/modify, but...it must be written rule.


John

#214357 - 11/19/14 02:54 PM Re: Help with Article 680 regarding self contained spa [Re: BigB]  
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 608
massachusetts
Here is a link to TIA 11-1

http://www.nfpa.org/~/media/Files/Codes%20and%20standards/standards%20council/fd11-3-10-d_d11-2_tia_nfpa70.pdf

In Massachusetts...a NFPA TIA to the original document that was accepted must be promulgated and signed by the Secretary of the State or the Governor to become law...I been told.


#214366 - 11/20/14 05:49 PM Re: Help with Article 680 regarding self contained spa [Re: BigB]  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
My understanding is that if a TIA or an Errata is tied to a code it is automatically part of the code. I say this because of the wording in the front of the code. Here it is for the 2011 NFPA 70:

Updating of NFPA Documents
Users of NFPA codes, standards, recommended practices, and guides (“NFPA Documents”) should be aware that
these documents may be superseded at any time by the issuance of new editions or may be amended from time to time
through the issuance of Tentative Interim Amendments. An official NFPA Document at any point in time consists of the
current edition of the document together with any Tentative Interim Amendments and any Errata then in effect. In order
to determine whether a given document is the current edition and whether it has been amended through the issuance of
Tentative Interim Amendments or corrected through the issuance of Errata, consult appropriate NFPA publications such
as the National Fire Codes® Subscription Service, visit the NFPA website at www.nfpa.org, or contact the NFPA at the
address listed below.


George Little

#214372 - 11/21/14 01:50 PM Re: Help with Article 680 regarding self contained spa [Re: BigB]  
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 608
massachusetts
In Massachusetts it must be promulgated. You can't just change the scope of a regulation without due process. NFPA 70 is adopted in Massachusetts as the Massachusetts Electrical Code... 527 CMR 12 and it isn't enforceable until signed by the Secretary of State.

Here is what they say about Errata...

CORRECTIONS
950 CMR 20.01 states that “Any change in text would be considered a change in regulations
so as to require compliance with M.G.L. c. 30A”, and M.G.L. c. 30A does not provide a process for
the correction of nonsubstantial typographical or mechanical errors. The Regulations Division will
publish a Notice of Correction to reissue a CMR page when such typographical or mechanical errors
occur. (The Notice of Correction form must be attested by an authorized person from the agency.)
An agency should be able to prove that the error is in fact clerical and does not change the focus of
what was the subject of public review. It is the responsibility of an agency to proof-read the “draft”
pages provided to them by the Regulations Division. Corrections should be made on the “draft” copy
prior to publication in the Register.

Massachusetts does have provisions for Emergency regulations and they are for something that is dangerous. They go into effect right away but only for 3-months. During the 3-months the Emergency regulation must be vetted to support its action. If it passes this process it will be permanent when signed by the Secretary of State.

George...I would check with your State. I suspect they follow a similar process. This is the USA and rules and laws must follow due process with public input.



#214373 - 11/21/14 02:23 PM Re: Help with Article 680 regarding self contained spa [Re: BigB]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,069
Estero,Fl,usa
Thanks, That was the way I was thinking too. It really will depend on how your state or locality adopts codes.
In Florida it is a bit easier since we adopt the NEC as written, state wide unless we specifically amend it so a TIA would apply unless the legislature amended it away.


Greg Fretwell

#214375 - 11/21/14 05:19 PM Re: Help with Article 680 regarding self contained spa [Re: BigB]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,810
Brick, NJ USA
After all of the above, it sounds like what I said.

IF a TIA is inclusive, it must be "in writing". We get official notifications from the State either 'yes' or 'no'.



John


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