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Can't find code reference. Help #213853
08/16/14 04:27 PM
08/16/14 04:27 PM
G
George Little  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
I seem to remember that in the NEC it said that the grounded conductor (neutral) had to originate from the same panel as the ungrounded conductor. Has that been removed, or am I just wrong? I'm thinking there was an issue with the "Gentran" box used with portable generators. or possibly this 8 circuit panel that includes the transfer switch made by Generac. Thanks in advance.


George Little
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Can't find code reference. Help [Re: George Little] #213854
08/16/14 08:58 PM
08/16/14 08:58 PM
G
gfretwell  Online Content

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,252
Estero,Fl,usa
As far as I know, the grounded conductor originates in the service disconnect enclosure where the main bonding jumper lands. Beyond that it just needs to be run in the same cable or raceway as the ungrounded conductors.

Maybe I don't understand the question.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Can't find code reference. Help [Re: George Little] #213855
08/16/14 09:33 PM
08/16/14 09:33 PM
G
George Little  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
I guess I didn't explain it very well. I'm talking about a situation where we have the ungrounded conductors originating in one panel and the grounded conductors being in another panel like you could end up with using a generator and a transfer switch.

300.3(B) kinda covers it but I was thinking of the situation where the neutrals are coming from a different source.


George Little
Re: Can't find code reference. Help [Re: George Little] #213856
08/16/14 10:45 PM
08/16/14 10:45 PM
G
gfretwell  Online Content

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,252
Estero,Fl,usa
Yup that was where I was going.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Can't find code reference. Help [Re: George Little] #213857
08/16/14 10:48 PM
08/16/14 10:48 PM
G
gfretwell  Online Content

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,252
Estero,Fl,usa
Where is the neutral coming from and how can they do that without violating 300.3


Greg Fretwell
Re: Can't find code reference. Help [Re: George Little] #213858
08/17/14 03:03 PM
08/17/14 03:03 PM
S
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 609
massachusetts
Wouldn't 300.3(B)(4) be similar in practice to the way a gen-tran transfer switch is installed?


Re: Can't find code reference. Help [Re: George Little] #213859
08/17/14 03:08 PM
08/17/14 03:08 PM
S
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 609
massachusetts
With those gen-tran switches and all the AFCI breakers required...you can't use them and keep the AFCI protection while on generator.

Re: Can't find code reference. Help [Re: George Little] #213860
08/17/14 04:58 PM
08/17/14 04:58 PM
G
gfretwell  Online Content

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,252
Estero,Fl,usa
Looking at the GenTran installation guide, it does appear that there is a neutral bus in the GenTran and they talk about installing the required GFCI/AFCI breakers in the GenTran.
http://gentran.net/assets/pdfs/EncoreInstall.pdf

I also saw another smaller GenTran that looks like it uses plug fuses. That would be troubling on a new installation. There does not seem to be any provision for xFCI

https://gentran.net/assets/pdfs/oldinstall.pdf


Greg Fretwell
Re: Can't find code reference. Help [Re: George Little] #213861
08/17/14 05:43 PM
08/17/14 05:43 PM
S
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 609
massachusetts
It is the smaller gen-tran switch that is most popular. It is sold in home stores also. This is the one without neutral provisions.

Re: Can't find code reference. Help [Re: George Little] #213862
08/18/14 01:03 AM
08/18/14 01:03 AM
G
gfretwell  Online Content

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,252
Estero,Fl,usa
The Encore is the one I see listed at my local Home Depot.

If they have one that will not accommodate xFCI breakers and does not have a neutral bus, I would call it a violation, on a couple of counts.
Even if they could make the case that none of the circuits served required GFCI or AFCI, I would still have trouble with the edison base fuse holders, even if they do have push button breakers in them.
(like the second one in my post above)


Greg Fretwell

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