ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Mini Split voltage
by Garemaret - 06/21/24 04:53 AM
Strobing LEDs
by Anovalight - 06/20/24 03:16 AM
Stuff that happens after we leave
by HotLine1 - 06/17/24 03:53 PM
photocell requirement for metal halide ballasts
by gfretwell - 06/17/24 01:44 PM
Commercial lift stations
by triple - 06/09/24 05:23 PM
New in the Gallery:
This is a new one
This is a new one
by timmp, September 24
Few pics I found
Few pics I found
by timmp, August 15
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 164 guests, and 10 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
Member
I seem to remember that in the NEC it said that the grounded conductor (neutral) had to originate from the same panel as the ungrounded conductor. Has that been removed, or am I just wrong? I'm thinking there was an issue with the "Gentran" box used with portable generators. or possibly this 8 circuit panel that includes the transfer switch made by Generac. Thanks in advance.


George Little
Stay up to Code with the Latest NEC:


>> 2023 NEC & Related Reference & Exam Prep
2023 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides

Pass Your Exam the FIRST TIME with the Latest NEC & Exam Prep

>> 2020 NEC & Related Reference & Study Guides
 

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,942
Likes: 34
G
Member
As far as I know, the grounded conductor originates in the service disconnect enclosure where the main bonding jumper lands. Beyond that it just needs to be run in the same cable or raceway as the ungrounded conductors.

Maybe I don't understand the question.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
Member
I guess I didn't explain it very well. I'm talking about a situation where we have the ungrounded conductors originating in one panel and the grounded conductors being in another panel like you could end up with using a generator and a transfer switch.

300.3(B) kinda covers it but I was thinking of the situation where the neutrals are coming from a different source.


George Little
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,942
Likes: 34
G
Member
Yup that was where I was going.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,942
Likes: 34
G
Member
Where is the neutral coming from and how can they do that without violating 300.3


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 613
S
Member
Wouldn't 300.3(B)(4) be similar in practice to the way a gen-tran transfer switch is installed?


Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 613
S
Member
With those gen-tran switches and all the AFCI breakers required...you can't use them and keep the AFCI protection while on generator.

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,942
Likes: 34
G
Member
Looking at the GenTran installation guide, it does appear that there is a neutral bus in the GenTran and they talk about installing the required GFCI/AFCI breakers in the GenTran.
http://gentran.net/assets/pdfs/EncoreInstall.pdf

I also saw another smaller GenTran that looks like it uses plug fuses. That would be troubling on a new installation. There does not seem to be any provision for xFCI

https://gentran.net/assets/pdfs/oldinstall.pdf


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 613
S
Member
It is the smaller gen-tran switch that is most popular. It is sold in home stores also. This is the one without neutral provisions.

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,942
Likes: 34
G
Member
The Encore is the one I see listed at my local Home Depot.

If they have one that will not accommodate xFCI breakers and does not have a neutral bus, I would call it a violation, on a couple of counts.
Even if they could make the case that none of the circuits served required GFCI or AFCI, I would still have trouble with the edison base fuse holders, even if they do have push button breakers in them.
(like the second one in my post above)


Greg Fretwell

Link Copied to Clipboard
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5