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Romex before dry in #212262 12/27/13 12:11 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,556
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gfretwell Offline OP
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There was a question on the building code forum that got some conversation.
Can you pull in Romex before the building is completely dried in?
Contractors seemed to say maybe or it was OK, most of the inspectors just said no.

It sounds like a classic damp location to me. Maybe if they could find NM-c but that seems to be a ghost product. The manufacturer sites I looked at send you to UF when you search on NM-c


Greg Fretwell
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Romex before dry in [Re: gfretwell] #212264 12/27/13 12:35 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline
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I don't have much of a problem. Heck, nearly every job seems to have 'complete' delayed by a window here and a door there. A little rain won't bother the Romex. Period. Just think of all the other 'indoor' materials that are OK for temporary, in the weather, on-site exposure (OSB, etc).

More of a concern is theft and vandalism; that's the real reason most EC's wait until the site can be 'secured.'

Thermal insulation is another matter. I suspect that most places schedule the 'rough' wiring just before they complete the 'dry in;' they want the sparkies out of the insulator's way, and the sparkies prefer to not have to work around piles of drywall.

Re: Romex before dry in [Re: gfretwell] #212270 12/27/13 04:41 PM
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shortcircuit Offline
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They don't make NMC anymore. With UF on the market, NMC went to the wayside.

We need to be weather tight round here to pull romex in...

Re: Romex before dry in [Re: gfretwell] #212272 12/27/13 06:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
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Tesla Offline
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With experience, electrical contractors have found that the framing is not really done until it's a dry box: house wrap going on even before the last nail goes in.

Not withstanding the contract or verbal assurances, it's discovered that GCs and owners feel free to re-frame right up until the last moment -- especially if the framing crew is still on site.

The extras imposed uppon the EC are not going to be accepted/ paid for as a consequence.

Further, the EC has all of the joy of working around another trade -- that's not used to working around others.

The correct sequence is:
Frame all the way to house wrap...
Plumbers...
Electricians...
Insulation...
Sheetrock...

For lowest cost: none of these trades expects to work around the others in residential spaces.

Everyone is bidding so tightly that they can't eat imposed mistakes, extras are not tolerated well.

Screwy, clever, ways of speeding up the process oft times result in bankruptcies of the GC.


Tesla
Re: Romex before dry in [Re: gfretwell] #212273 12/27/13 07:08 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 613
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shortcircuit Offline
Member
Around here it goes...

Frame...
Roofing...
Windows...
Siding...
Plumbers...
HVAC...
Electricians...
Alarm...
ROUGH INSPECTIONS

The inspectors don't what any dry location material installed until the structure is weather tight...

Re: Romex before dry in [Re: gfretwell] #212276 12/27/13 09:44 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
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HotLine1 Offline
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Usual scenario is...
Frame
Roofing
Windows/Doors (temp)
HVAC
Plumbers
Electricians
ROUGH INSPECTIONS: Elec/Plumb/Fire
Framing inspection
Insulation
Insulation Inspection

Mix a few 'red tags' inbetween......

The alarm, A/V, Comm slip in accordingly.

No wiring is installed before the structure is weather tight. Very few have tried, none have been successful...


John
Re: Romex before dry in [Re: gfretwell] #212278 12/28/13 02:24 AM
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gfretwell Offline OP
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This was posed as a multi story commercial building. The reference was because of the allowance of Romex above 3 floors. They were asking about starting the wiring on lower floors before the building was topped out and dried in.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Romex before dry in [Re: gfretwell] #212279 12/28/13 02:28 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,556
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gfretwell Offline OP
Member
In SFR around here they usually get the Framing, electrical, plumbing and HVAC (pre drywall)) at the same time (called the FEPA/C) and these days it might be the same inspector doing it all.

In the tough times the more licenses you had, the better chance you were not laid off.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Romex before dry in [Re: gfretwell] #212281 12/28/13 06:27 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
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Tesla Offline
Member
Greg...

I didn't comprehend that the job was that large.

///

Out my way, the AHJ still won't permit Romex beyond 3 floors.

Chicago is paranoid about fires -- hence EMT forever...

California is paranoid about earthquakes -- hence MC is pushed where the NEC would settle for Romex.

MC does have one overriding advantage in commercial construction: it can tolerate structures still open to the elements. That can make it, ultimately, the cheapest way to go: the time to completion can be drastically shortened.

====

In my entire career, I only had one job where the boss wanted to transition from MC to Romex. It was a horrific mistake on his part: the Romex space was too small. Just transitioning wasted whatever materials savings he thought might be had.

Ultimately, he made enough mistakes -- on enough jobs -- to take himself out of the game. His biggest mistake was alienating his foremen while sucking up to his apprentices.

This is a tick seen all too often in the trades: the boss can't leave his own foreman's cap behind -- and treats his (foreman) subordinates like they're still his rivals for promotion -- even though he owns the whole firm!

(Mentally, he was trapped: 'competing' with the design solutions and management grace of his own top men. Doing so, he failed to function as the top manager, top salesman.)




Last edited by Tesla; 12/28/13 06:28 AM.

Tesla
Re: Romex before dry in [Re: Tesla] #212293 12/29/13 10:28 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 984
G
ghost307 Offline
Member
Fire is only the 'official' reason for Chicago requiring that everything be in conduit.


Ghost307
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