ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
Southwire Recalls Electrical Outlet Boxes
by Admin - 08/21/19 06:39 PM
Fuse blower plug?
by HotLine1 - 08/20/19 01:50 PM
100 year old Light Bulb
by HotLine1 - 08/20/19 01:26 PM
Forum Updates Coming Soon.
by Admin - 08/18/19 01:55 PM
Anybody Remember this?
by Bill Addiss - 08/17/19 09:07 PM
New in the Gallery:
What is this for?
Plug terminals
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 3 guests, and 8 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs #211449 10/14/13 08:22 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,454
T
Texas_Ranger Offline OP
Member
From what I've gathered, the German VDE 0100 is to introduce AFCIs in their next edition. I don't think they'll be mandatory, but so far I'm not aware of any other European regulations even mentioning AFCIs. The German term translates to "Fire prevention switch". Interestingly enough, a German name was chosen, whereas a few years ago attempts were made to introduce all-English terms for various devices, e.g. RCD instead of FI-Schutzschalter. The current edition uses the German term again.

Test Equipment:
Large Selection of Test Equipment For Electrical, HVAC, Test & Measurement
Large Selection of Test Equipment For Electrical, HVAC, Test & Measurement
Re: VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs [Re: Texas_Ranger] #211517 10/22/13 08:36 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,803
Alan Belson Offline
Member
The uncomfortable truth is that, [although we don't do politics here], the European Project is falling apart and National Standards are reappearing. The Brits will likely take their cricket bat and ball home as soon as they get a referendum, Germany has resurgent patriotism and the unspeakable National Front hung the Socialists and Gaullists out to dry in recent local elections in France, with one in 4+ voting for them. No surprise with 25%+ unemployment in southern Europe and getting worse.


Wood work but can't!
Re: VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs [Re: Texas_Ranger] #211554 10/26/13 09:12 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,454
T
Texas_Ranger Offline OP
Member
I'm not that sure about that. Far from wanting to leave the EU, Germany is actually trying to take the lead and pull the cart out of the mud, regardless of whether we think their methods and ideas are up to the task or not.

Technical standards are an entirely different matter. While we have the various harmonisition documents, about every country has so many national addendums that the actual regulations vary considerably. I see this all the time with Germans trying to give advice to Austrian DIYers (or even prfessionals in fields they aren't familiar with) and vice versa. For example, in a German TT supply with RCD-protected circuits the earth resistance is only limited by the prospective fault current, that's around 1600 Ohms for a 30 mA RCD. In Austria, there's an absolute limit of 100(!) Ohms, less than 1/10. A German setup would instantly fail testing for that reason (unless earth resistance happened to be low enough anyway). The Brits and Irish extended zone 2 in bathrooms (surrounding baths and showers) from 60 cm to 2 m, the Belgians added a zone 3 (essentially to the same effect), etc. etc.

Re: VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs [Re: Texas_Ranger] #211624 11/02/13 03:03 AM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,262
Trumpy Offline
Member
Hi Ragner,
I'd like to put my spoke into this wheel.
Over here in NZ, there are moves (from I don't know where), to maybe convert us to a TT supply system, when we currently use the TN-C-S (Multiple-Earthed Neutral), this is the same system used in Australia and it works down here, why change it?
AFCI's are not going to do a damned thing for anyone, it will save no more lives than a smoke detector, but it will end up being bypassed when it gives false trips.

Re: VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs [Re: Texas_Ranger] #211627 11/03/13 08:37 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,454
T
Texas_Ranger Offline OP
Member
I'm not exactly pleased by this development either and I'm afraid we'll eventually end up seeing it in Austria too. The fact alone that nobody but the manufacturer knows how an AFCI works is enough to give me serious doubts. By comparison, the way an RCD works is well-documented and it is fairly easy to determine whether an RCD works as it should.

It's interesting to see that NZ is converting to TT, whereas Austria has been going the opposite route for the past 15 years. In 1998, the TN-C directive was introduced, effectively a national law forcing the conversion of all supplies to TN (with very few exceptions such as installations in the immediate vicinity of 16.7 Hz railway power systems). TT supplies now require two series-wired RCDs as backup protection.

Re: VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs [Re: Texas_Ranger] #211655 11/07/13 11:03 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,373
S
sparky Offline
Member
I've heard the afci is being marketed abroad, but i don't understand how they could replace the RCD's

~S~

Re: VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs [Re: sparky] #212494 01/12/14 11:57 AM
Joined: Aug 2008
Posts: 51
A
andey Offline
Member
I dont think they are meant to replace GFCIs but as an addition

Re: VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs [Re: andey] #212505 01/13/14 02:50 PM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,454
T
Texas_Ranger Offline OP
Member
Originally Posted by andey
I dont think they are meant to replace GFCIs but as an addition

Probably, or as combo devices.

Re: VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs [Re: Texas_Ranger] #219072 01/15/18 12:38 PM
Joined: May 2015
Posts: 64
L
LongRunner Offline
Member
They may come to Australia next: http://www.ecdonline.com.au/content...-the-risk-of-electrical-fires-1188033210

High-frequency noise is mentioned as a way of detection, but how are they going to reliably ignore noise from things like switching power supplies and brush motors? (Sure, such items have filters; but they don't completely block RF, and the filter capacitors can deteriorate and drop in capacitance.)

And if they're so confident in the efficacy of AFCIs, why can't they come up with a standardised test?

I'd just want to see independent proof of their performance in realistic scenarios, to be convinced. (I can't say I've succeeded in maintaining an arc between a normal 240V plug and socket under load, so make of that what you will...)

Re: VDE 0100 to introduce AFCIs [Re: Texas_Ranger] #219077 01/16/18 07:36 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,373
S
sparky Offline
Member
Question for you LongRunner, does Oz use RCD's @ 30ma?

Mains @ 100ma ?

~S~

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
MarkC10
MarkC10
CA, Inland Empire
Posts: 43
Joined: September 2013
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 21
GeneSF 8
Popular Topics(Views)
257,934 Are you busy
193,669 Re: Forum
183,284 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3