ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Make sure to get permits

Here is another story about "MAKE SURE TO GET INSPECTIONS."

Just today, I had to go to a final inspection. It was a finished basement. There was no rough inspection done on the job. The seller was an elderly couple. They either did the work without permits or bought the house and the previous owner did the work. I don't know. I just had to go today and final out the permit. There was a letter on file stating that this EC went through the basement and certified that everything down there met the code.

The first thing I saw was a recpt. above an electric baseboard heater. I also saw a handy box with too many wires in it ( I think it was 3 cables and a recpt.)
There were also several recpt. in unfinished area with out GFI protection. The only GFI done there had an open ground wire connection.

So naturally, I had to fail the job. The owners were very mad because the house closing is tomorrow. Luckily, the new buyer was there and she saw everything. They both wanted to know if they could close on the house tomorrow. I said that if you guys write up something in your contract, that the attorneys, realtors, owners/buyers all agree to, I don't care. Just fix everything and call for a final inspection.

I also blame the EC who signed the letter stating that everything was up to code. He obviously didn't look too well.

Interesting tale, Harold. I always enjoy posts from foreign countries

Here in the USA - at least, in 49 of the 50 states - we seem to muddle along just fine without any need for inspections at the time of sale. Indeed, I can't see where the State has any business injecting itself into such a basic, private, transaction.

Not that things are perfect elsewhere. If nothing else,"Holmes on Homes" has educated a lot of folks about the shoddy work out there. An entire 'home inspection' business has come into being.

I should note here that Mike Holmes did a sequel, "Holmes Inspections," where he exposed the inadequacies of these inspections.

In my own remodel - a project that will go on for years - City Hall has a set response for me: No permit needed. They think I'm daft for asking.

Fellow property owners (and contractors) also think I'm a bit daft, as I am rather anal about what I expect. For example, my insistence on a concrete pad for the air conditioner. Others question my passion for correcting errors as my demolition finds them (but it's lasted this long ...).

Heck, I just may install fire sprinklers, just to keep the gossips busy

Harold:
I have also had a few ECs that provided letters attesting to installations being code compliant, safe, all devices tested, etc. (Letters filed with permit app)

At the inspection, 3-way switch don't work, receptacles miswired, GFIs not working, luminaires not secured to ceiling grid,

Red tag, upset owner/realtor. I call the EC and ask "what's up"; answers vary from 'I didn't see that'; 'it looked good to me'; I only filed the permit & letter'; 'what job??'

This statement does not apply everywhere as I respect the inspectors on this & other boards, but locally the inspections are just for revenue not safety, around my house I lose no sleep about not getting a permit.

Inspectors do depend on the contractors doing their job.
Can you trick an inspector? Certainly
Will an inspector catch everything you screw up? Nope.
The whole system is based on spot checking the work. Nobody is going to open every box ans check every termination.

I had a dispute with DMS when I started inspecting because I was taking too much time. It was the bean counters more than the "boss" and I pretty much ignored them. In many cases I was not working with qualified installers and I felt safety was more important than hitting some bogie on time per inspection. The reality was that the travel on most of my inspections was more than the "eyes on" anyway. I was covering 8 counties. (primary on 5 and backup on 3 more)

"Primary' on 5 counties??? How did you manage that??
I have 32 sq miles, 115k pop, 5k +/- permits a year, myself & 1 inspector and and we just about make it daily.

Yes, it's a help when the EC is at a jobsite, or the foreman/lead man is there for the inspections. If there are any minor issues, they could be corrected, to save a red tag & re-inspect.

I agree with Greg, I'm human, & so is my 1 inspector.

My original contract was for 3 counties, then they kept expanding it.
I worked for the state, inspecting all state projects.
Actually pretty cool.

We're forgetting one thing here: Our entire country wasn't built around 'inspections' and 'permits.' Rather,it was built on the doctrine of accountability, with the right to sue under 'common law' for wrongs.

Let's look at the hotel room in question. Suppose the first victim had died of disease - which the next victim caught. There are no specific 'codes' addressing what the hotel operator must do in cleaning the room; rather, the next victim is free to take his claim to court and let the jury decide.

Introduce code requirements, and you often make things less safe, and lessen the recourse available. "It met all legal requirements, was permitted, and inspected" becomes a positive defense against any claims.

There's an impulse in the inspection community to favor more rules,in greater detail, with more inspections. However well-intentioned, this impulse ignores millennium of history showing that it is the very nature of government to abuse power. Our Constitution was created for the sole purpose of limiting the government.

"My department is perfect and my people all angels." Sure it is. That doesn't account for other departments and their agendas.

Yup and average life expectancy was about 58

Your comment seems to infer that freedom comes at the price of a shorter life. Statistics fail to bear that out.

US life expectancy is considerably greater than what's found in, say, Cuba. Or, for that matter, any other tyranny you care to mention.

Within the US, life expectancy is greater in less regulated places like Iowa, than in heavily governed places like Washington, D.C.

The lesson is clear: markets work - if you let them. Central planning fails- every time it's tried. Note the countries whose prosperity has rocketed from the moment they forsook all-powerful government. Their success has been directly paralleled by their degree of freedom.

Why do we continue to expand, and attempt to 'fine tune,' something destined to fail?