ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Comments for debate....

Homestead Florida and Hurricane Andrew.

The houses that pretty much exploded were far less than code. There were not enough nails in the roof sheathing, missing hurricane clips etc. That area had very sloppy enforcement with a lot of drive by inspections and such. The result was the whole government structure was changed. Unincorporated Dade county was merged with the city of Miami. Inspectors, state wide were licensed and certified. They ended the practice of the inspector just being the unemployed nephew of the mayor. Eventually they established a state wide building code with no local exceptions.
Subsequent hurricanes did minimal damage to houses built after the Andrew reforms were established and the codes were strengthened even though Florida had one of the most stringent codes before that.

I was a code nazi, back when i was learning with a few of the 80's code cycles. In fact i could recite many codes verbatim. My bro (who i started out apprenticed to) said i sounded like Joe Friday of Dragnet fame, the rest of the world looked at me like i was speaking greek.

I'd say it all nice to know in a pro forum such as this or similar setting, but way down the list on the scale of 'how to make friends & influence people' social etiquette....

These days, as a cynical old curmudgeon electrical contractor i find folks simply want to know if it's safe

But that's only a yes or no answer for the simple minded, if we're really honest,'safe' is a relative term.

So i'm often confronted by situations here, in Vermont where there is no OC or any sort of inspection for single family. In fact there are entire families living in what many would probably think twice about for a dog house

Conversely, the entire NFPA library isn't some safety utopia if it doesn't have a prayer being enforced.
I'd wager compliance becomes inversely proportonal to it's growth , if such a study existed....

Personally, i find it rather uncomfortable having to address some safety benchmark for people's existence.

This validates the 'state', and the sovereign immunity it grants itself , essentially removing us from the malestrom of moral conundrum

~S~

Seems like we are on different layers of discussion.

To comment on Reno regarding offices, my Twp has a large lot, marked 'visitor' spaces, required ADA spaces, and it's free. One small boro I work in has a small lot, and yes, parking is tight to say the least, but, no parking fee. We also attempt to 'put all hands' at the counter when the staff has a line. Keep in mind, field inspectors are really not great clerical people, and there was limited cross training.

Being able to 'contact' the office staff may be tight sometimes, but there is voice mail. That said, most of the 'regulars' have my cell #; my office line has voice mail, we all have email, and also can be reached thru the OEM, and police dispatch for emergencies.

That said, this is in one town that I work for.

Please keep in mind that for 25+years I was an EC, and was on the 'customer side' of the counter. Yes, there were many town halls that I dreaded to have to go into.

later....

Sorry, I am late as usual. We have been very busy around here. As John said, I am not a code Nazi either. Quite frankly, if a homeowner doesn't get an inspection, do I really care? That being said, I am in an office where I am suppose to care and enforce the laws of my state. I too would usually catch an EC on the side and say, "You know you need a permit for that don't you?" "Get to the office and get one." Also if say an EC just goes and adds 2-3 recess lights in a closed wall/ceiling and he has to snake walls in order to do it, do you think I want to go out and inspect that? What am I going to do, walk in flip the light switch and see if the lights work? The first thing a HO will yell about is the price of a permit and what we have to look at.

Now during emergencies like Sandy, all the permits were free. No one could complain about the price. However they didn't want to wait for inspections. Even though I came to town on days and weekends that I wasn't suppose to be, just to keep things moving.

For the past 61/2 years I have been doing multistorey apartment buildings in several ndifferent states. I have seen insectors who were very good to very incompentent. The good ones were usually easy to talk to and fair on the code enforcement. if they had a local code issue they were enforcing strongly they told us about it either during our talks with them before the actual constuction or during our first rough in inspection.
The pain in the a** always told about what they wanted thier way after the inspection sometimes on a letter sent to the GC 2-5 days after inspection. one place I found out that to pass an inspection cost $50.00 every time the inspector showed up.
Had one site the inspector came out to the job site during rough grading looked at the plans for about 10 sec and told me $900.00 for the permit and he would come by tommarrow to take care of it so I would not have to fight the traffic downtown. Next day 900 cash was given rough in and final tags- never saw him again

The insinuations of 'pay to play' issues IMHO is what I consider situations that cast bad light on the majority of inspectors. Be they within the building areas, engineering, health, code, etc.

State wide codes solve the problem of most 'local' issues, that is within the construction codes. State licenses also helps keep the 'rules' on a level field. Keep in mind that the 'rules' are subject to interpertation.

I don't doubt what you said, but 900 cash would put someone in the 'gray bar' hotel here.

I had a friend of mine who was an inspector in PA and he used to work for an independent company. You would have to hire his company and pay for his services every time he went out. So it would give the impression that the more times he failed you, the more money his company would make.
Like John said,here in NJ it is a state wide code and you pay once up front. ( Unless you change your permit by adding more things, motors, HVAC's, services, etc)from the original permit. So if I fail you once or 100 times, it doesn't cost you anything more. It might however tick off the inspector if you fail 100 times.

BTW, I have a whole house generator jab that is on it's seventh (7th) inspection.

Hopefully, the EC (??) continues to attempt to correct the violations, the 'list' is getting shorter!!

John,

I get that a lot when a HO is doing their own in ground pool. I always try to talk them out of doing the work themselves. I tell them how involved it is, but every now and then "Joe Homeowner" wants to do it himself. I had one I/G Pool that took I think 5-7 inspections before it was code complaint.

That's gotta hit 'em in the wallet & make 'em think about it though.....~S~