ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
Lock-down Thread
by gfretwell - 05/10/21 06:12 PM
Do You Travel?
by HotLine1 - 05/10/21 02:17 PM
Any Woodworkers here?
by Trumpy - 05/10/21 07:22 AM
Your favourite food?
by Trumpy - 05/10/21 07:07 AM
Just be aware of this...
by Trumpy - 05/10/21 06:47 AM
New in the Gallery:
2020 - 2021 Winter Project
Garden 2021
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 21 guests, and 14 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Re: Sump Pump #209312 03/23/13 12:14 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
H
harold endean Offline OP
Member
Do sump pumps have to be on GFCI protection?

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean] #209316 03/23/13 01:48 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 613
S
shortcircuit Offline
Member
Depends...

Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean] #209317 03/23/13 07:57 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,254
HotLine1 Offline
Member
Harold:
A single receptacle is OK in my book, w/o GF.


John
Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean] #209322 03/23/13 08:28 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 613
S
shortcircuit Offline
Member
They make GFCI receptacles with audible alarms now. These work great in areas that require GFCI receptacles and you have concern for lost power on pumps, refridgerators or similar equipment.

Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean] #209327 03/24/13 12:41 AM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
H
harold endean Offline OP
Member
I would like to see some more answers before I reply to my own post. smile

Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean] #209331 03/24/13 02:12 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,607
G
gfretwell Online Content
Member
The law?

There is not a lot of wiggle room in 210.8

Quote
(5) Unfinished basements for purposes of this section, unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like
Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection.

If this is a crawlspace, unfinished basement or garage, the only 120v 15/20a receptacle that gets an exception is an alarm circuit.
Even a dedicated single is not OK unless you come up with an alarm to plug in it.
You could get away with rewiring it to 240 from what I read.

I am glad I don't need to explain that to a home owner.

On the other hand this is a lot more dangerous than what we protect from in swimming pools.
I see;
.A flood
..The pump stopped
...A homeowner standing in ankle deep water with a screwdriver in his hand trying to figure out why the pump isn't running.

In a perfect world there would be a dead face GFCI at the top of the steps, just feeding the sump pump. If it won't hold, you are done.
If it was indicating (noise or light) you have something.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean] #209339 03/24/13 12:56 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
H
harold endean Offline OP
Member
Greg,

When I see a BA/FA transformer it is either in a duplex receptacle that is over 6' or higher. (no GFI required). I have seen them in single receptacles. Then the installer usually tie warps the trans to the box.

Would you allow this, a duplex receptacle with the phase leg strap snipped so that the top half of the duplex is dead, but the bottom half is live. This way the installer can still use the 6-32 screw to hold the trans in place. Also you should make the installer paint the top half black or something like write DEAD on the top half.

Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean] #209343 03/24/13 01:16 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
H
harold endean Offline OP
Member
I have another question/scenario, What about a finished basement with a bathroom. There is a ejector/grinder pump for the basement toilet. It is behind the finished wall into the "Unfinished" area of the basement. Is GFI protection required for the receptacle? If it is a duplex? Single?

Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean] #209344 03/24/13 01:42 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,254
HotLine1 Offline
Member
Harold:
The split duplex with the 'dead' half has been a subject of discussion many times. Technically, I'll take a shot that it is 'wrong', as there is a single device that is readilly available. My opinion; show me why & I may agree. The wall wart transformer is (according to mfg) be mounted via the plate screw. Would I have an issue with tie-wraps? Probably not.

Back to the sump & ejector pumps; IMHO, the scenario Greg wrote above is a safety issue. IMHO, I have not heard of anyone saying 'the guy in xxx town wants GFI'.



John
Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean] #209352 03/24/13 02:32 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,607
G
gfretwell Online Content
Member
Quote
When I see a BA/FA transformer it is either in a duplex receptacle that is over 6' or higher. (no GFI required).


Where is there a 6' exception to 210.8(5)?

I am not sure I would get too excited about a duplex, serving the transformer for a BA/FA. If NEMA would catch up with the code, the wall wart would have screw tabs spaced for the cover screws on a single receptacle.



Greg Fretwell
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
RH1
RH1
California
Posts: 22
Joined: August 2009
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Trumpy 19
Admin 8
Popular Topics(Views)
278,810 Are you busy
211,973 Re: Forum
199,011 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3