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#209312 - 03/23/13 11:14 AM Re: Sump Pump  
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
Do sump pumps have to be on GFCI protection?


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#209316 - 03/23/13 12:48 PM Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean]  
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 608
massachusetts
Depends...


#209317 - 03/23/13 06:57 PM Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,883
Brick, NJ USA
Harold:
A single receptacle is OK in my book, w/o GF.


John

#209322 - 03/23/13 07:28 PM Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean]  
shortcircuit  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 608
massachusetts
They make GFCI receptacles with audible alarms now. These work great in areas that require GFCI receptacles and you have concern for lost power on pumps, refridgerators or similar equipment.


#209327 - 03/23/13 11:41 PM Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean]  
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
I would like to see some more answers before I reply to my own post. smile


#209331 - 03/24/13 01:12 AM Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,142
Estero,Fl,usa
The law?

There is not a lot of wiggle room in 210.8

Quote
(5) Unfinished basements for purposes of this section, unfinished basements are defined as portions or areas of the basement not intended as habitable rooms and limited to storage areas, work areas, and the like
Exception to (5): A receptacle supplying only a permanently installed fire alarm or burglar alarm system shall not be required to have ground-fault circuit-interrupter protection.

If this is a crawlspace, unfinished basement or garage, the only 120v 15/20a receptacle that gets an exception is an alarm circuit.
Even a dedicated single is not OK unless you come up with an alarm to plug in it.
You could get away with rewiring it to 240 from what I read.

I am glad I don't need to explain that to a home owner.

On the other hand this is a lot more dangerous than what we protect from in swimming pools.
I see;
.A flood
..The pump stopped
...A homeowner standing in ankle deep water with a screwdriver in his hand trying to figure out why the pump isn't running.

In a perfect world there would be a dead face GFCI at the top of the steps, just feeding the sump pump. If it won't hold, you are done.
If it was indicating (noise or light) you have something.


Greg Fretwell

#209339 - 03/24/13 11:56 AM Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean]  
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
Greg,

When I see a BA/FA transformer it is either in a duplex receptacle that is over 6' or higher. (no GFI required). I have seen them in single receptacles. Then the installer usually tie warps the trans to the box.

Would you allow this, a duplex receptacle with the phase leg strap snipped so that the top half of the duplex is dead, but the bottom half is live. This way the installer can still use the 6-32 screw to hold the trans in place. Also you should make the installer paint the top half black or something like write DEAD on the top half.


#209343 - 03/24/13 12:16 PM Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean]  
harold endean  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
I have another question/scenario, What about a finished basement with a bathroom. There is a ejector/grinder pump for the basement toilet. It is behind the finished wall into the "Unfinished" area of the basement. Is GFI protection required for the receptacle? If it is a duplex? Single?


#209344 - 03/24/13 12:42 PM Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,883
Brick, NJ USA
Harold:
The split duplex with the 'dead' half has been a subject of discussion many times. Technically, I'll take a shot that it is 'wrong', as there is a single device that is readilly available. My opinion; show me why & I may agree. The wall wart transformer is (according to mfg) be mounted via the plate screw. Would I have an issue with tie-wraps? Probably not.

Back to the sump & ejector pumps; IMHO, the scenario Greg wrote above is a safety issue. IMHO, I have not heard of anyone saying 'the guy in xxx town wants GFI'.



John

#209352 - 03/24/13 01:32 PM Re: Sump Pump [Re: harold endean]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,142
Estero,Fl,usa
Quote
When I see a BA/FA transformer it is either in a duplex receptacle that is over 6' or higher. (no GFI required).


Where is there a 6' exception to 210.8(5)?

I am not sure I would get too excited about a duplex, serving the transformer for a BA/FA. If NEMA would catch up with the code, the wall wart would have screw tabs spaced for the cover screws on a single receptacle.



Greg Fretwell

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