ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
Lock-down Thread
by Bill Addiss - 02/27/21 01:16 PM
Northern Tool Recalls Powerhorse Generators
by Admin - 02/25/21 09:49 PM
You will never guess
by gfretwell - 02/25/21 07:48 PM
New tool
by SMOKEYBOB - 02/15/21 04:59 PM
New in the Gallery:
Facebook follies, bad wiring
FPE in Germany pt.2
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 13 guests, and 16 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
VFD on a GFI #208288 01/08/13 07:01 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
T
twh Offline OP
Member
A customer wants to connect a piece of equipment with a VFD to a GFI circuit. It runs fine on a normal breaker but trips the GFI breaker. (It isn't the motor)

I would recommend replacing the drive if the new drive wouldn't have the same problem. A couple years ago, I wouldn't have thought that CSA/UL equipment would have a ground fault, but now I know better.

Have you ever put a VFD on a GFI?

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: VFD on a GFI [Re: twh] #208290 01/08/13 08:44 PM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
T
Tesla Offline
Member
It's not that they have ground faults...

It's that their wave forms are electronically perceived by GFCI circuitry as being faulted.

It's inherent in the design of a GFCI's 'balance' circuit that the hot is compared to the return.

VFDs create zany harmonics that rise above the threshold of instantaneous imbalance -- triggering a 'trip.'

Hence, one must install an Equipment Utillization Receptacle rated at a higher threshold.

"In the case of Heat Trace Cables, instead of using the Class A, 6ma Trip Threshold GFCI Devices for controlling excessive "Leakage", Ground Fault Protection for Equipment ("GFPE") Devices are used. The standard Trip Threshold for these GFPE Devices = 30ma (0.03A)."

Per Scott ^^^^ down at the end of the GFI Tripping thread.



Tesla
Re: VFD on a GFI [Re: twh] #208291 01/08/13 09:05 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 251
W
WESTUPLACE Offline
Member
I had the same problem, I installed ferrite beads (several)on the power lines between the VFD and the GFCI. It is running today trip free.

Re: VFD on a GFI [Re: WESTUPLACE] #208292 01/08/13 09:50 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
T
twh Offline OP
Member
Originally Posted by WESTUPLACE
I had the same problem, I installed ferrite beads (several)on the power lines between the VFD and the GFCI. It is running today trip free.
How are ferrite beads sized and from where are they purchased?

Re: VFD on a GFI [Re: twh] #208294 01/09/13 12:05 AM
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
T
Tesla Offline
Member
I don't know where you can buy them in retail quantities...

But every old, discarded TV or PC power supply has ferrite rings as part of the low-pass DC filter circuits.

I don't think I've ever seen them sold alongside resistors, caps and such at Fry's or Radio Shack.

Within these power supplies, ferrite cores are wrapped in copper. It acts as a magnetic dampener -- clipping the highest peaks off of non-harmonic wave forms.

They're required because PWM triggering circuits create sharp edged pulses that can degrade conductors via corona discharge through weakened insulation.

-----------

Ironically, they were once the 'core' of computer memories. All the way through the 1960s the DRAM of all computers was composed of ferrite core memories.

Hence, the term 'computer core'....

Early in 1970 silicon memory chips finally overtook ferrite core memory as the least expensive DRAM. Ferrite cores left the market entirely within twelve months.


Last edited by Tesla; 01/09/13 12:13 AM.

Tesla
Re: VFD on a GFI [Re: twh] #208295 01/09/13 12:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
T
twh Offline OP
Member
Now I'm wondering if a line-side reactor would do the same thing. I know where to get those, but the ferrite bead is more interesting.

Re: VFD on a GFI [Re: twh] #208296 01/09/13 03:27 AM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,569
G
gfretwell Online Content
Member
I could send you a few if you just want to experiment.

The ones I have are for line cords so they are about 3/8" id


Greg Fretwell
Re: VFD on a GFI [Re: twh] #208297 01/09/13 09:23 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 361
M
mbhydro Offline
Member
you can get them from DigiKey
http://www.digikey.com/product-search/en/filters/ferrite-beads-and-chips/3408555

Just have to know what size you need

Re: VFD on a GFI [Re: gfretwell] #208316 01/11/13 01:01 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
T
twh Offline OP
Member
Originally Posted by gfretwell
I could send you a few if you just want to experiment.

The ones I have are for line cords so they are about 3/8" id
Thanks, but I'll have to pass on your offer. I would have loved to experiment, but I don't know the owner very well.

Re: VFD on a GFI [Re: twh] #208320 01/11/13 02:03 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 613
M
mikesh Offline
Member
Why is the circuit GF protected? Is it protected by a class A device whick trips at 6ma or a GFI at 30 ma as Tesla outlined?
There are a lot of exceptions for specific equipment from GF protection because motors often trip GFCI devices. For example a domestic sump pump is located outdoors and the receptacle is in a location that would normally require GFCI protection. We have a rule in the Canadian code book that allows the pump to not be GFI protected as the pumps work is critical. Just need to use a single receptacle and in use cover with a lock to prevent casual use of the outlet. I would expect this is generally true for the NEC too?

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
HCE727
HCE727
Delaware County, PA, USA
Posts: 186
Joined: November 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Popular Topics(Views)
275,535 Are you busy
209,427 Re: Forum
196,827 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3