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#207438 10/29/12 07:50 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 241
S
SJT Offline OP
Member
Hello,
When we install an outlet in an existing home, do we have to protect it with an AFCI, if it is going in the AFCI areas? Is that needed only if we are running a line back to the circuit breaker panel?
Also, is a finished room in a basement, require AFCI protection, if a new circuit is ran to that room?
Thanks
Just sitting here listening to the winds of Sandy.
She's makin a lot of noise here on Long Island.
SJT

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SJT #207441 10/29/12 09:46 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,667
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G
Member
That is one of those "where do you live" things.
Usually there is an existing building or rehab code that will tell you.
I think that generally if you are just extending an existing circuit, no.


Greg Fretwell
gfretwell #208586 01/31/13 08:52 AM
Joined: Jan 2013
Posts: 7
C
New Member
Originally Posted by gfretwell
That is one of those "where do you live" things.
.


We do mostly remodel work, in NJ specifically and have yet to be busted for a new outlet being AFCI. If the room is on one then yeah you probably should.

As for the basement do AFCI or GFI is my preference just to be safe from any water

SJT #208589 01/31/13 11:41 AM
Joined: Apr 2002
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Debate is now in progress regarding AFCI in basement 'finishing' jobs. It is under the NJ UCC Rehab, and a recent opinion from State DCA says...
'Yes, AFCI unless you are extending an existing circuit'
Rehab is based on the 2008 NEC now, and AFCI is required.

The debate is what section of the Rehab Code applies to finishing an existing basement, with no increase in structural volume.

This is the New Jersey take, other states will vary


John
SJT #208624 02/02/13 02:20 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
H
Member
John,

Yes, I checked with DCA on Fri. and talked to the New Guy down there. His name is Alan Chech ( pronounced check) His take is that a new finished basement counts as "New building element" and therefore AFCI is required. Our Rehab does follow 2008 NEC and new work follows 2011. Having said that, I believe that even if you replace a receptacle, according to the 2008 NEC, you were suppose to change the circuit to AFCI. However NJ removed that requirement from the NEC under our UCC rules.

SJT #208625 02/02/13 02:21 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
H
Member
Just another thought. Receptacles for sump pumps, should be on GFCI if they are in a basement, right? How many people do not want that rule? Should the receptacle also have to be AFCI?

SJT #208626 02/02/13 03:04 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
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Harold:
The key to what you say regarding the 'basement' is the words "New Guy".
Previous discussions regarding this was...
As the basement is a part of an existing building envelope, it is not considered an 'addition' therefore it does not require AFCI. This opinion was drafted by Susan and Rob Austin.

This 'new' opinion will add to the confusion that the UCC original intent was to have consistant interpertations, and the 'rules' to be equal statewide.

Someone down there should provide an FTO on this, so everyone is on the same page. Doing this will prevent "John does not enforce/require that" issues.

What say you? His page or mine??


John
SJT #208635 02/03/13 01:44 PM
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
H
Member
John,

I am not a big fan of AFCI's just yet. I would love any reason not to have to enforce using of those product right now. I told Alan that in the 30 + years of electrical work, this UCC/Rehab/NEC code has been more confusing than I have ever encountered in all my years. He also agreed. Maybe we have to write to the DCA and submit changes to the UCC and the Rehab code, stating that.

SJT #208645 02/03/13 10:01 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,667
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G
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I think the AFCI is the last war. That is over, they almost work now. We should just use our experience with that to fix the problem of "the next new thing" getting jammed in the code before it is ready for the public, going forward.
We are at version 3.1 or higher in the AFCI and it is just starting to return on the promise. We should not have been selling these at the point of a government gun during the testing process.


Greg Fretwell

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