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Sub panel feeder spliced at 1st disco #206688
07/31/12 07:59 PM
07/31/12 07:59 PM
akmaster  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 70
alaska
Hi,
I am thinking you can NOT splice the neutral to a main feed to a meter base but you CAN splice the neutral to a sub panel feed FROM the meter base (6 pack). 312.8 prohibits splices here if I am understanding this article.

The situation is a 6 pack meter base with six mains. One of the mains is feeding a sub panel. They have used Polaris connectors to splice the Neutral in the 6 pack meter base.

I was thinking this was not allowed but wanted to get some feedback.

One more thing, is it allowed to run a 4/0 EGC through a knockout/hole in the six pack to ground? I was thinking there should be a bushing there. (anything larger than #4).

Thank you for any responses.


Don't drive and TEXT! Drive now TALK LATER!
2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Sub panel feeder spliced at 1st disco [Re: akmaster] #206689
07/31/12 08:52 PM
07/31/12 08:52 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,225
Estero,Fl,usa
312.8 really doesn't talk about splices at all. This is saying you can't bring conductors through a cabinet containing O/C devices from other circuits ... unless there is room.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Sub panel feeder spliced at 1st disco [Re: akmaster] #206690
07/31/12 09:31 PM
07/31/12 09:31 PM
T
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
EGCs REQUIRE bonded bushings at each 'choke' point/ metal barrier -- per code.

Size, for this run, has nothing to do with it; even a #8 would need bonding bushings.

=====

In my area, utility customers legally cede all assets on the line side of the Poco meter -- and, so, these elements have to meet Poco standards.

The typical Poco apartment oriented six-pack sends the neutral current through the meter ( 5 connection jaws ) making any connection ahead of the meter an absolute no go.

Your description is so thin that it's hard to comment upon.



Tesla
Re: Sub panel feeder spliced at 1st disco [Re: akmaster] #206691
07/31/12 09:42 PM
07/31/12 09:42 PM
akmaster  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 70
alaska
Hi,
Sorry for the confusion, let me try to explain a little better..

I am thinking you can NOT splice the neutral to a main feed to a meter base but you CAN splice the neutral to a sub panel feed FROM the meter base (6 pack).

312.8 prohibits splices here if I am understanding this article. I thought this covered "NOT A JUNCTION BOX"...maybe that's a different article.

The situation is a 6 pack meter base with six mains. One of the mains is feeding a sub panel. They have used Polaris connectors to splice the Neutral in the 6 pack meter base enclosure off one meter base to feed the sub panel...not ahead of the meter...this unit has bus bars and individual neutral connections for each meter base/disco..4 wires per disconnect.

I was thinking this was not allowed but wanted to get some feedback.

One more thing, is it allowed to run a 4/0 EGC through a knockout/hole in the six pack to ground? I was thinking there should be a bushing there. (anything larger than #4).

"When I run a #6 ground from a meter base I just use the factory provided hole which has no bushing and could be considered a "choke point". This is why I was asking because I thought there may be an exception. So They would need at a minimum a bushing such as a PVC male adapter with locknut and bushing?

Thank you for any responses.


Attached Files
electric 421.jpg (57 downloads)
Last edited by akmaster; 07/31/12 09:50 PM. Reason: correction

Don't drive and TEXT! Drive now TALK LATER!
Re: Sub panel feeder spliced at 1st disco [Re: akmaster] #206695
08/01/12 12:58 AM
08/01/12 12:58 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,225
Estero,Fl,usa
This is the commentary in the handbook for 312.8

Quote
Most enclosures are intended to accommodate only those conductors connected to terminals for switches or overcurrent devices within the enclosures themselves. Where adequate space is provided for additional conductors, such as control circuits, the total conductor fill in the enclosure may not exceed 40 percent of the cross section of the wiring space in the enclosure and no more than 75 percent if splices or taps are necessary.



It appears they are more interested in wire fill than splices. They don't want unrelated wiring junking up the cabinet ... unless there is room.

Quote
... unless adequate space for this purpose is provided. 312.8



Splices do not have a fill count.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Sub panel feeder spliced at 1st disco [Re: akmaster] #206696
08/01/12 01:04 AM
08/01/12 01:04 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,225
Estero,Fl,usa
There looks like plenty of room in that picture, you would pass in my patch.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Sub panel feeder spliced at 1st disco [Re: akmaster] #206699
08/01/12 04:49 AM
08/01/12 04:49 AM
T
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
It is entirely against code to use anything less than a BONDING BUSHING -- typically provided with LAY-IN LUGS/ LAZY LUGS for the GEC...

IF the GEC is entering a 'choke'...

At the extreme limit, even the face of a metallic can induces a choking effect on fault current jolts heading down a GEC.

Yet, most inspectors will not insist on a bonding bushing if the entire remainder of the path is choke free -- i.e. is non-ferrous -- either bare #6 solid or #8 on up with in PVC...

If the GEC is metal clad solid #6 then bonding bushings -- listed for the purpose must be used at each end.

From your post I can't determine if the six pack is pad mounted or is surface mounted above grade.

Your thinking WRT wire size is conflating two issues: #4 on up need bushings at all points in the field wiring/ your efforts...

The GEC needs bonding bushings based upon whether it's passing through a ferrous choke - - which covers the entire range of GECs #8 through 3/0.

Pad mounted Services typically have GECs up toward 3/0 -- in the pad's pour -- brought up to a grounding rail at the base of the Service -- on the customer's side of the Service. In such cases, no box exit exists and no further ado is made: the 3/0 is bent into a mechanical lug on the rail and torqued down.

Bare #6 - SOLID - is permitted to pass out of a can and on down to a grounding rod, or two, without further protection. ( mechanically )

I expect that this will be reversed shortly because of the, now massive, loss of GECs all over the nation to meth heads. It's a problem that's not going away. Further, I believe that these drug addled minds will soon find out that any PVC headed down out of a panel = free, safe, stealable copper.

This last situation is now running riot through urban Poco public loads such as street lighting.


Tesla
Re: Sub panel feeder spliced at 1st disco [Re: akmaster] #206701
08/01/12 01:02 PM
08/01/12 01:02 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,225
Estero,Fl,usa
If there is no metallic raceway, what would the bonding bushing bond?


Greg Fretwell
Re: Sub panel feeder spliced at 1st disco [Re: akmaster] #206702
08/01/12 01:20 PM
08/01/12 01:20 PM
akmaster  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 70
alaska
Hi,
Thanks for the clarifications. This panel is mounted above ground and the poco feed is coming in via Liquid Tight Flex with bonding bushings that the 4/0 connects to. it enters the 6 pack through a 1/2" hole under the enclosure.

myself I usually leave about 6" of exposed ground then go through a section of pvc then out to ground rod..this allows a place for others to connect to the ground...cable, phone etc..

I will see if I can add photo to clarify this since it the other question has been settled.

Thanks


Attached Files
electric 414.jpg (36 downloads)
Last edited by akmaster; 08/01/12 01:23 PM.

Don't drive and TEXT! Drive now TALK LATER!
Re: Sub panel feeder spliced at 1st disco [Re: akmaster] #206703
08/01/12 01:25 PM
08/01/12 01:25 PM
akmaster  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jun 2012
Posts: 70
alaska
Here is a view of the complete installation..


Attached Files
electric 429.jpg (34 downloads)
Last edited by akmaster; 08/01/12 01:26 PM.

Don't drive and TEXT! Drive now TALK LATER!
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