ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area Covering drywall openings after new load center

Reno:

Which path is this conversation taking? Are we talking about an EC that goes to do an install as a 'single trade job', where the EC is the only trade doing any work?

Or, are we talking about a comm, or resi alteration where there may be other trades doing work?

Look at it closely, those trades are interlinked, to use installing a packaged heating/cooling unit on the roof, in addition to setting the unit, it needs plumbing for the gas supply, & power to run it, keeping it inhouse is better then subbing it out.

Norcal:

Yes those are interlinked trades, as opposed to an EC that paints, plasters, etc.

I threw that line in for Reno, as it seems he can't find a HVAC guy that will do his complete job! (Minus the electrical, I assume)

I think the farther you get away from the monoculture enforced by unions, the better chance a trade can do other things. We do have HVAC contractors here with EC licenses. Whether they have a guy who can do drywall is going to be a crap shoot but a lot of people bounced around the business before they got the job they have now.
I do notice these "jack of all trades" guys are not as good as a guy who does it every day tho. I have an example in my new room. Fortunately we were painting an underwater mural on that wall because it was already "wavy".

What direction?

OK, I admit to having hijacked the thread a bit, but I don't apologize.

Nor do I want to dwell too much on my personal quests, save that being on the 'customer' side of the table has opened my eyes.

Commercial or residential? Well, let's back up a bit first ....

There are uncounted times in our business forum where someone says "My bid / contract says repairs by others." Sometimes it seems to be a contest to pass off everything to someone else. We don't want to move furniture, prep, clean up, patch, repair .... If we're the data guys, we even want someone else to run the pipe!

IMO, that's the wrong approach.

The customer wants a completed job. COMPLETE. He wants a light hung, he shouldn't have to get his own ladder to put in the bulbs.

I'm not saying every individual electrician needs to be a framer, painter, rocker, etc. I agree that different folks have different talents. I also recognize that any trade requires a significant investment in tools and materials, and no one can buy or carry everytjing.

I AM saying that every contractor needs to be able to get the entire job done, from start to finish. As a customer, I care not whether the hole is patched by Joe's Electric or Sam's Drywall; I DO expect the job to be done when Joe gives me the bill. Joe needs to learn to patch, hire someone who can patch, or call in Sam.

I admit that customer will often - especially in the case of commercial properties, where they have a maintenance staff on hand - be willing to assume these duties. Especially if it reduces the bill.

I also recognize that 'new construction' is a different set of circumstances.

I just think it's an error to expect every customer to carry our water for us. It might be nice to have a co-operative customer, but I wouldn't base a business model on it.

Another of my 'customer' experiences comes to mind: The window contractors.
None were able / willing to actually INSTALL a new window. All were able to slip a replacement into an existing, finished hole. Nice work if you can get it.
Of the two companies I used, only one took away the trash. The other guy piled it at the curb for the trash man to collect.
The guy who carried off the trash had a 'disposal fee' in his bid, yet his total price was considerably less.

Anyone care to guess which one will get my business for the other half of the house?

OK, that's a trick question. Whoever makes the openings for the new windows will have a real good shot at supplying the windows.

John...

Cutting in a rough opening is W A A Y beyond the skill and tool set of the aftermarket window crowd. Period, stop.

It's also a TRIVIAL fraction of that trade.

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The ultimate bottom line: dry wall repair is VERY skill intensive -- not so much tool intensive.

For most of us -- we just can't do it. We are also not subbing enough work to get any price breaks -- and can't control scheduling: his.

Further, we quickly find that we're financing the rock repair. We must pay 100% of the time -- collection, at retail, is a b...

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My solution is to rarely damage the walls. It slows me down.

Renosteinke.
We are "ELECTRICAL CONTRACTORS" contract electrical work and not framing, not plumbing, not drywall repairs. We work for years to gain the skills to be electricians and not the skill to drywall. I get the point about finishing the job but that is what the General Contractor is for if the job is multi trade.

I am not wasting the customers valuable dollars doing work that i will leave looking like an electrician did the drywall and charging out at electrical rates. Heck I'd probably take twice as long to deliver 1/2 the quality. It just does not make sense to expect us to also be competent generalists and how do you charge for patching? I suppose that you could have a drywaller as a regular sub contractor to do hte patching and leave an allowance in your bid. I could see that customers might appreciate the service but It is absurd to hire a service guy for his drywalling skills when what we do is install the light with the bulbs installed too.
Now there are 1 stop contractors and we often complain about their general lack of ability at any 1 aspect. The do it all and often poorly.
Drywalling is a skill and it takes practice plus another complete set of tools and equipment. Where is the space for the sheet of drywall on the truck, plus the mud, plus the bead, plus the tools and all the time to get good at it. I suspect that if you don't do a professional drywall finish the customer will of course assume the electrical is crap too. So now you have a bad reputation for an aspect of the job you only started doing as a service. I kind of go by ht ehow you do anything is how you do everything mindset so if you are going to also finish the work it better be as good or even better than your wiring. At least if I send in a drywaller or the customer does I don't get blamed for the shoddy electrical work based on his work.
Customers will tell their neighbours the electrical contractor is crap based on the drywall job even though all the electrical works fine.

just stick to what you are good at and for what you are hired for and be sure to clean up.

While I don't fix the holes I also don't leave the mess from making the holes or make messy holes either. IE don't use a hammer to create an opening in the wall. Know what your drywaller can fix too so you make repairable holes.

Mikesh, you completly missed the point.

As a contractor, you ought to have no trouble bringing in one of your fellow contractors, on a moments' notice, to do what you need. You simply include the cost in your price to the customer.

That's why our license allows us to be 'prime' contractors. We're allowed to act like a 'general contractor' for jobs that are primarily electrical.

Reno:
IF you were here in NJ, and you performed ANY work other than electrical, you would be required to have a Home Improvement Contractors License (Resi).

That means, go & do electrical & carpentry, etc. you must have that License. (aka "13VHO")

If it's comm (other than resi) most towns have a "Contractors License" required by local ordinance.

I wondered about that too.
Florida does have some exemptions for coincidental remedial work but if there is any extensive amount of work involving other licensed contractors you might be tiptoeing around the CG license category.
I don't think simply patching up around damage you cause in the scope of your electrical work would put you in violation but you also need to hire licensed people, not just a "cash" handyman with no license, tax ID or insurance. You really don't want to be in the "hiring" business these days if you can avoid it. (I-9s, E-verify, 1099s etc)
If the homeowner wants to do that, it is his call. He doesn't have a license at stake and he can exploit the $500 casual labor thing for reporting.