ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Video door bell causing chime activation of coil
by gfretwell. 12/10/18 12:35 AM
Conduit fill Calculations
by gfretwell. 12/08/18 08:39 PM
Pull out fuse panel?
by Trumpy. 12/06/18 02:12 AM
Swimming Pool question
by HotLine1. 12/05/18 12:37 PM
Tingle off the water spigot
by rmiell. 11/30/18 01:03 PM
New in the Gallery:
What is this for?
Plug terminals
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 38 guests, and 9 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Rotary Phase Converter for elevator #206292
06/14/12 04:32 PM
06/14/12 04:32 PM
C
cgw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 134
Rochester NY
Anyone used a rotary phase converter for a 240/208 3 phase elevator in a building with 240V-1 ph? Any issues I should be aware of?

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Rotary Phase Converter for elevator [Re: cgw] #206293
06/14/12 04:58 PM
06/14/12 04:58 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,323
Estero,Fl,usa
We used to use a bunch of them in the computer business back when computers filled the room. They went from 208 60hz 3/p to 208 400hz 3/p tho. Same basic machine.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Rotary Phase Converter for elevator [Re: cgw] #206294
06/14/12 05:02 PM
06/14/12 05:02 PM
L
LarryC  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 783
Winchester, NH, US
New install? If so, why not use a modern VFD. Less maintainance, possibly greater reliability, more flexibility, smaller size, less audible noise, etc.

Re: Rotary Phase Converter for elevator [Re: cgw] #206295
06/14/12 06:29 PM
06/14/12 06:29 PM
T
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
I've NEVER seen an elevator install/ upgrade which permitted outsiders ( non-elevator technicians ) to touch ANY aspect of their sub-system.

That specifically includes phase conversion/ rectification and transformations.

The latest Otis Elevators are entirely dialed into 480 VAC power. When 208Y120 is Service Power -- they install their own step-up transformer.

The much older Otis Elevator, being replaced, used a rotary rectifier: namely a motor-generator set. It'd spool up before the doors would even open.

Until the modern electronic era, only DC motors were considered suitable for traction effect.

Now, step-wise, these are all being replaced by smart AC motors.

BART hauled its old cars off to the factory to be rebuilt with them.

Likewise the entire railroad fleet is being shunted oven to AC.

I wouldn't even consider using a rotary phase converter for elevator duty.

Perhaps you're looking at / thinking of a motor-generator set.


Tesla
Re: Rotary Phase Converter for elevator [Re: gfretwell] #206303
06/15/12 09:03 AM
06/15/12 09:03 AM
N
NORCAL  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 882
Originally Posted by gfretwell
We used to use a bunch of them in the computer business back when computers filled the room. They went from 208 60hz 3/p to 208 400hz 3/p tho. Same basic machine.


Your talking about a motor generator, a RPC uses a 3 motor to manufacture a phase from a single phase supply to operate 3 motors on a 1 supply. Most are self starting, some home built models use a "pony motor" to bring them up to speed, & then idle them, (all of them single phase the idler motor).

There are plans out there for folks building their own RPC's, there are a lot of people who never heard of RPC's, here is a link to 1 forum that has plans for them. http://www.practicalmachinist.com/v...ry-phase-converter-designs-plans-101231/

Some people are a bit too "clever" for their own good, but that would be a good topic for a thread on it's own.

Off topic but since a lot of people have never heard of RPC's......

Re: Rotary Phase Converter for elevator [Re: cgw] #206306
06/15/12 11:06 AM
06/15/12 11:06 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,323
Estero,Fl,usa
Quote
Your talking about a motor generator, a RPC uses a 3 motor to manufacture a phase from a single phase supply to operate 3 motors on a 1 supply.


You are right, my bad. We did use a MG


Greg Fretwell
Re: Rotary Phase Converter for elevator [Re: gfretwell] #206321
06/16/12 01:33 AM
06/16/12 01:33 AM
N
NORCAL  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 882
Originally Posted by gfretwell
Quote
Your talking about a motor generator, a RPC uses a 3 motor to manufacture a phase from a single phase supply to operate 3 motors on a 1 supply.


You are right, my bad. We did use a MG


At a former employer we had a 100 HP MG set for 400HZ power, it was a PITA to cool the room where the transformer & MG set was, it was later replaced w/ a inverter....

Re: Rotary Phase Converter for elevator [Re: cgw] #206326
06/16/12 04:26 PM
06/16/12 04:26 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,323
Estero,Fl,usa
They usually got the 400hz inverter supplies along with the UPS when they went that way.

The MG sets were pretty much trouble free tho.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Rotary Phase Converter for elevator [Re: cgw] #206335
06/17/12 10:45 AM
06/17/12 10:45 AM
C
cgw  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 134
Rochester NY
Are we still on topic?
An existing building with 240V-1Ph. The new elevator is 208/240V-3ph.
American Rotary and Phase-a-matic are two manufacturers of rotary phase converters.

Someone mentioned a VFD. Can a variable frequency drive be used?

I have yet to meet a elevator manufacturer who would install anything on the line side of their equipment (like a transformer).

Re: Rotary Phase Converter for elevator [Re: cgw] #206336
06/17/12 12:43 PM
06/17/12 12:43 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,323
Estero,Fl,usa
Functionally a VFD should work fine. I am not sure if the elevator supplier/inspector is OK with it but I am not sure why they wouldn't like it.


Greg Fretwell
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
watersparkfalls
watersparkfalls
Washington...Not DC
Posts: 222
Joined: March 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Popular Topics(Views)
252,195 Are you busy
189,176 Re: Forum
178,852 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.032s Queries: 16 (0.003s) Memory: 1.0268 MB (Peak: 1.2082 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-12-14 03:11:40 UTC