ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion Building Codes for Electricians Inspector disapproval the Poggenphol kitchen light

Hi, I am new to this forum and need your big help,

I have bought a Poggenphol kitchen, see the attached picture. The city electrial inspector disapproval of the kitchen:
1. Need UL listing for the kicthen canbinet becasue the backsplash is lighted,see the picture in this link: http://www.architonic.com/pmgal/plusmodo-poggenpohl/1141490
2. need plugs every 4 feet, but this kitchen is already built and the backsplash is the glass box;
3. the lights and the plug can not be in same circuit, but this is already made this way by PoggenPhol company.
Thanks for all of your inputs,
Yan

I am not sure the inspector has any choice. That is what the code says.
My major concerns would be the light on the receptacle circuits, how many 20a receptacle circuits you have and whether the receptacles meet the spacing requirements. If it was compliant on those points I might give you a break on the listing, assuming it looked safe.

It is too bad that PlusMudo did not sell you a compliant product. It does look nice.
I would get the factory rep to tell you what they are going to do for you.

Are they selling this in the USA, or did you order it from overseas? if in the USA, they do need to get in compliance with the codes here.

I don't know what's up with UL listings for cabinets, as lots of homes physically construct them as custom during build or remodel. But if the lights underneath get hot, I certainly am concerned. But UL is not doable on custom construction.

They do need to have the outlets every 4 feet. That isn't hard to do.

I do know that aftermarket undercabinet lights do get plugged into the countertop outlets.

I do wonder what inspectors might do for cases where a house is being built with the intent to install attached furnishings that fully cover the walls with built-in lights and outlets that meet code. WHen unattached furniture blocks an outlet, that seems to be OK (even though I think it is bad). But what about attached stuff that will be semi-permanent. The inspector can walk into a kitchen under construction and see NO outlets in the usual places. Plans call for that furnishing to be installed that will make for the right outlets. But that's installed later when other stuff like drywall is done.

I was assuming this assembly got hardwired into the rough. If it is actually cord and plug connected it brings up more questions.

A custom, high end contractor has a similar unit to the 'Sargento' wall unit with the built-in appliances; it is an imported item, I believe from Italy. It was installed 'to 2008 NEC' requirements. Three (3) 120/20 countertop circuits, etc.

The 'rough' for the required circuits and spacing issues was achieved via a nice plugmold install. The lighting circuits were also field wired, luminaires came with cabinets; UL/TUV labels.

Looking briefly thru the linked site...seems to be all european goods; I did not see any reference to any listings.

As to cabinets with UL labels? I never gave that a thought, although we do check all electrical devices.

The cabinet contains built in lighting, wouldn't that require a listing?

I would look for a listing mark on the luminaire but I don't think the whole cabinet needs a listing.

Greg:
Have you ever seen a UL/other label on any kitchen cabinets?

No that is why I sad that.
I have seen U/L listings on office cabinet assemblies tho. (components of wired cubicle systems)
I suppose there might be an AHJ somewhere who would draw this parallel in a modular kitchen system with internal wiring.

Can they get a field certification from a listing agency?

Harold:

Have you seen the $$$$ for a field certification recently??

This thread has just made me realize just how big of a scofflaw I am ....

As I remodel my house, I have mounted many light fistures. They're simple keyless lampholders, attached to surface-mounted boxes, with a cord grip and a pigtail. They pluginto the 'temporary' receptacles I have also strung around the place.

Yup; DIY luminaires. Not a single one is a UL listed assembly.

Do you think that maybe the NEC has gone too far?

John,

No not really, I have never seen anything actually field listed. What would something like that cost? (If I might ask.)

Harold:
Recent quote from UL for Field Cert for buss modifications performed by the mfg to a piece of switchgear was $14500.00

Mod was installation of four (4) 14" buss extensions (3000 amp) with bracing.

Value of a UL listing? Just wait until tonight ... I'll start a new thread ... you won't believe the listed product I just found!

Might make you reconsider a few of your assumptions ....

Looking at this, I don't see how to get around the countertop receptacle requirements.. The backsplash is all lightbox and the cabinets are too high to use plugmold underneath and be considered countertop recepts. I'm guessing they just tied this into existing circuits that were present pre-remodel. Are there ANY places to plug appliances in? I also noticed an island counter which would need an outlet of two..


Was an electrician involved in the hook up of this setup to begin with?

RE: the absence of UL listing.. Would ETL be cheaper and acceptable? (They're the listing on the aftermarket Zinsco, Bulldog, FPE CB's...)

ETL - Intertek

As to cabinets with UL labels? I never gave that a thought, although we do check all electrical devices.