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Re: Tie wraps #203672
10/19/11 12:29 AM
10/19/11 12:29 AM
H
harold endean  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
I have been on this board for a long time and I sometimes forget which topics we have discussed.

Anyway what is everyone's thought about using tie wraps to secure AC or MC cables to metal studs in a construction job? Should it be allowed? Is it allowed? Code sections or manufactures instructions?

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Tie wraps [Re: harold endean] #203680
10/19/11 12:28 PM
10/19/11 12:28 PM
Niko  Offline
Member
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 356
Campbell, CA
as far as i know it is OK.

330.30 Securing and Supporting
(A) General. Type MC cable shall be supported and secured
by staples, cable ties, straps, hangers, or similar fittings
or other approved means designed and installed so as
not to damage the cable.

But i have had people say "approved means" is to be approved for that purpose but some say "approved means" basically means an approved strap or tie that has been approved for general strapping.

All though there are staples that are designed for romex and bx cable and romex cable only. I dont see any difference in them but they are listed for two separate cables.

Last edited by Niko; 10/19/11 12:35 PM. Reason: added

Be kind to your neighbor, he knows where you live

Re: Tie wraps [Re: harold endean] #203681
10/19/11 01:00 PM
10/19/11 01:00 PM
G
Gregtaylor  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 212
Boise, Idaho, USA
Well, since that code citation specifically names cable ties and then goes on to say "or OTHER approved means" I'd say they were fine. I've never been turned down for it when I pointed this out to the AHJ.

Re: Tie wraps [Re: harold endean] #203682
10/19/11 01:39 PM
10/19/11 01:39 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,289
Estero,Fl,usa
The only admonition I have is that you have to be sure they are tied in a way that insures the 1.25". I see guys get pretty sloppy with tywraps, making the whole process look like an after thought. Remember the intent.

There is another problem, not really safety related but an issue for the building owner/tenant. If you do not strap metal wiring methods down well, it will rattle every time someone slams a door or a big truck goes down the road. I had a loose EMT in my wall at work that was really annoying. I finally poked a hole in the wall and fixed it when they were getting ready to paint the place. After listening to it for 2 years, I knew right where to look. wink


Greg Fretwell
Re: Tie wraps [Re: harold endean] #203687
10/19/11 03:34 PM
10/19/11 03:34 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,024
Brick, NJ USA
Ty wraps are acceptable for support. As Greg said, sometimes it tends to get sloppy, and the 1.25" non-compliance buys a red sticker.

On a similar note...any thoughts to using 'tape'? Electrical tape, black or any color??

Some guys try to get away with tape to the ceiling wires.


Last edited by HotLine1; 10/19/11 03:36 PM. Reason: added a thought.

John
Re: Tie wraps [Re: HotLine1] #203689
10/19/11 04:06 PM
10/19/11 04:06 PM
K
KJay  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
The only concern I would have would be where fire code for a commercial building would prevent using ordinary plastic ties and instead would require either the steel ties or the plenum/fire rated plastic ties.
Other than that, I don't really see a problem.

Re: Tie wraps [Re: harold endean] #203694
10/19/11 11:12 PM
10/19/11 11:12 PM
T
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
Nylon tywraps are going to melt at the same temperatures that will ruin the insulation of THHN.

So I've never had an AHJ object to them.

Indeed, super ty-wraps are routinely used by other trades ( HVAC ) for installations above the grid.


Tesla
Re: Tie wraps [Re: Tesla] #203701
10/20/11 10:26 AM
10/20/11 10:26 AM
K
KJay  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
IMO, the fire code would be more about smoke control and keeping things secured when heat buildup occurs. The regular plastic ties will likely add more more toxic smoke to an area as well as melt long before the metal of the MC or armored cable does, which could release the bundles of cables and allow them to fall, creating even more property damage and additional hazards to first responders.

Last edited by KJay; 10/20/11 10:28 AM.
Re: Tie wraps [Re: harold endean] #203709
10/20/11 12:43 PM
10/20/11 12:43 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,289
Estero,Fl,usa
I believe these are usually just holding the wiring method in place until the rockers are done. After that the cables could be fished so we don't care if they fall down ... or so the logic goes.
If this was exposed work, I doubt I would let tywraps be used.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Tie wraps [Re: harold endean] #203713
10/20/11 03:04 PM
10/20/11 03:04 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,024
Brick, NJ USA
Plenum rated ty wraps solve the fire code aspects of smoke/toxic fumes, as do the stainless steel ty wraps. The ss are cheaper then the plenum rated, last I heard.

The last jib I saw the plenum rated, they were easily identified by 'purple' color. I don't know if that is a mfg 'standard', or was just for that particular brand.



John
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