ECN Forum Forums General Topics of the Trade General Discussion Area stranded wire and devices

I suppose it depends on where you see it. I looked around on the P&S web site for over an hour tonight. I see a slick brochure that says the side terminals re OK with 14 and 12 ga solid wire and the back wire terminals are OK for 14 and 12 ga solid copper wire "only".
I find a lot of specification sheets but not one for the 3232 series. They just say "copper wire only".

I have a question in to the tech support guys there to see what this really means.

Here is the link.

http://www.legrand.us/passandseymour/receptacles/residential-duplex/tamper-resistant/3232trw.aspx

Yup that is the one I saw but that is a sales brochure, not the technical spec or the installation instructions so I am not sure it meets the 110.3(B) test.



You note they say "only" on the push in.


This will still get back to the listing standard if you don't have this in the "instructions included in the listing or labeling." [110.3(B)]
Is there something written on or included in the box?

This is what P&S says.

Thanks Greg.

If I have a quarrel with 'the trade,' it's the way folks would rather parse words than actually learn the trade before dissecting everything they can find printed somewhere.

I swear, some folks would call the manufacturer with a qusetion, then construe the receptionists' cheerful "Good Morning" as a demand that the afternoon be gloomy.

We're not lawyers, and we shouldn't pretend to be.

For all their efforts, testing labs do not have the wisdom of Solomon, nor do they anticipate every possible variation. "Has not been evaluated" is but a way of saying 'we don't know.' It does not neam 'forbidden.'

Nor is this a world where only 'perfection' and 'unacceptable' exist. There's plenty of room for 'good enough.'

"Has not been evaluated" does mean "not listed for that application" so that usually means it will not be approved by the AHJ.

That really translates to "forbidden" if you are getting an inspection, doesn't it?

That, Greg, is where, IMO, our friend at UL are more than a little dishonest.

I guarantee that they answer nearly every question with some variation of 'we don't know.' "Has not been evaluated" is one of the more common examples.

Take ANY electrical fitting with specified pipe threads on it. NONE of those threads have been 'evaluated' for connection to anything else with pipe threads.

Or, take wire nuts. NO wire nuts have been 'evaluated' for use with the wires twisted together. Nor is UL willing to say that twisting the wires is in any way incorrect.

So, your construction that 'not evaluated' means 'not listed' is incorrect. Tempting as it is, the two statements are not the same.

"Not evaluated" may mean nothing more than that the testing protocol did not consider that particular situation. An example might be to ask about painting cabinets and conduit. While the testing standard requires some corrosion protection on the unit before it gets the lable, the question of someone adding paint later is generally not addressed. Very few things have ever been 'evaluated' for a coat of paint. Or, for that matter, cleaning with soap and water. It's just not part of the protocol.

That is going to be between you and your local AHJ.

It does not say things have to be listed in 110.2 only that they are approved. Your AHJ can pretty much approve anything he wants but listing by a NRTL is a handy/safe way to make that decision. By a like token they could disapprove a listed product. Issues surrounding the Purple Ideal 65 wire nut spring to mind. There are a few AHJs who believe CPSC over U/L on that and will not accept aluminum/copper splices with them.

ZMVV in the white book does not talk about twisting the wires in any way. It defers to the manufacturer's instructions. Most I have read say "it is not necessary to twist the wires" but it doesn't say you can't.

Having n NRTL label/listing is a very helpful tool. Having to 'evaluate' items at the time of inspection would be a real nightmare, IMHO.

Off topic but related.....

Recently, an assortment of LED luminaires (mostly surface mounted decorative) are causing a 'stir'. One that was uninstalled for inspection purposes lacks any label/listing; assembly and components. HO/GC are attempting to 'find' some documentation. Transformers/drivers are 'mounted' with either silicone or some adhesive, no facility for EGC, missing nipples/bushings for wiring passing thru the sheetmetal shell, etc. There's about 1-11/2 hours of inspection time & counter time already in this.