ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
IRC M1307.3
by gfretwell. 08/21/18 08:30 PM
The greenhouse job
by gfretwell. 08/21/18 08:26 PM
Upgrade the old panel
by HotLine1. 08/21/18 08:14 PM
Light Pole Grounding
by HotLine1. 08/20/18 05:34 PM
Calling all Non-US members!! (Non-US only)
by Bill Addiss. 08/13/18 05:52 PM
New in the Gallery:
Plug terminals
Housebilding DIY wiring
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 9 guests, and 18 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
Re: 4" round plastic box #201151
05/16/11 09:50 AM
05/16/11 09:50 AM
H
harold endean  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
An electrical contractor told me about plastic 4" round ceiling boxes. He said that in order to be rated for 50 lbs. you had to install a screw in the box and attach it to the ceiling joist. I asked him, OK where does it say that? and he said he the last AHJ told him.

Now I don't know if it was true or not, and I was trying to find something on either Slater or Carlon website, but all I found is that those boxes are rated for 50lbs. I tried to find installation instructions, but nothing was written there either.
Anyone heard this before?

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: 4" round plastic box [Re: harold endean] #201155
05/16/11 01:30 PM
05/16/11 01:30 PM
G
gfretwell  Online Content

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,256
Estero,Fl,usa
I don't see anything that says that either.
Is he saying you need to drill a hole in the side of the box and install an additional screw?


Greg Fretwell
Re: 4" round plastic box [Re: harold endean] #201157
05/16/11 02:36 PM
05/16/11 02:36 PM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,895
NY, USA
It's been awhile, but this sounds somewhat familiar... Some Boxes are supposed to be for Fans, but say the Fan has to be supported indepentantly of the Outlet Box (screw through Box). Maybe that's what he means?

I found the following for one Brand:

Quote
Weight Limits: Fans and fixtures are supported independent of outlet box. Mounting screws go through box and into joist.
Box will support up to 70 lbs. for fans and 90 lbs. for fixtures.


This sounds a bit misleading, as the box isn't actually supporting anything if the mounting screws go into the joist.

http://www.cooperindustries.com/con...iling%20Fan%20Boxes%20and%20Supports.pdf

Bill

Re: 4" round plastic box [Re: harold endean] #201163
05/16/11 03:16 PM
05/16/11 03:16 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,003
Brick, NJ USA
Harold:
Do you mean the TP 16511 in Bills link??

The TP 1300 or equal by other mfg does allow the fan support hardware to be attached direct to framing. The TP 16511 type is a nail-on & 35# rated, and I know of no provisions to 'attach' any type of fan braces to that box.

I'm quite sure that some enterprising person could mount a 2x? over the top of the box & run lags/screws into that but ...bye, bye listing.



John
Re: 4" round plastic box [Re: harold endean] #201167
05/16/11 06:59 PM
05/16/11 06:59 PM
G
gfretwell  Online Content

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,256
Estero,Fl,usa
The fan boxes I see are nailed/screwed to the side of the joist and the only real difference I see is the mounting screws are #10 and they extend through the ears to the back of the box. I may have one here somewhere.
I see nothing in the white book that indicates any more support is required than what is provided by the supplied mounting bar or bracket.


Greg Fretwell
Re: 4" round plastic box [Re: harold endean] #201178
05/16/11 11:42 PM
05/16/11 11:42 PM
Obsaleet  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2003
Posts: 362
Pa


Choose your customers, don't let them choose you.
Re: 4" round plastic box [Re: Obsaleet] #201184
05/17/11 12:51 AM
05/17/11 12:51 AM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,895
NY, USA
Originally Posted by Obsaleet

... Smart boxes are advertised on this site.

http://www.licensedelectrician.com/Store/SmartBox.htm

Ob

You can't tell from the picture of this Box, but there is a heavy metal plate that goes behind the area that screws to the ceiling joist and across the top of the box to support the fan itself. These are not your average plastic fan boxes by a longshot.

You can see it by clicking on the 'New Release' picture under the Box on page below:

http://www.licensedelectrician.com/Store/SmartBox-3.htm

Bill

Re: 4" round plastic box [Re: harold endean] #201186
05/17/11 02:08 AM
05/17/11 02:08 AM
dougwells  Offline

Member
Joined: May 2003
Posts: 1,145
kamloops BC Canada
I never knew that a paddle fan receiver could fit inside the box , cool idea

Re: 4" round plastic box [Re: harold endean] #201201
05/18/11 10:25 AM
05/18/11 10:25 AM
H
harold endean  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
Boonton, NJ
No to all the above. The box I saw was a black box that looked like Slater I think. The EC on the job told me that he failed in another town because he did not have the screw there. He said the OTHER AHJ told him that it had to be installed. He said something to the effect, "When there isn't a screw there the box is only rated for 30 lbs' , but when you have the screw, it is good for 50lbs."

Now I know this other AHJ and he is a nit picker. He likes fail guys for anything that he can. He usually does his homework and finds out small details with which to fail you. However I think that sometimes he will stretch a point just to be able to give you a red sticker.

So when this EC looked to me for some guidance, I told him that I would look into it. I have seen the boxes and they do have a small hole in the top where a screw could fit through and hit the rafter. I just can't seem to find more info on the matter.

Re: 4" round plastic box [Re: harold endean] #201202
05/18/11 01:20 PM
05/18/11 01:20 PM
G
gfretwell  Online Content

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,256
Estero,Fl,usa
This sounds like a question for the manufacturer. They are the ones who did all of the engineering to certify that their boxes are 50 lb rated. I looked at several pages and I did not see anything that indicated that you needed any more than the fasteners in the mounting bracket. The ones with the 2 captive nails seem to be 50lb rated.


Greg Fretwell
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
renosteinke
renosteinke
Blue Collar Country
Posts: 5,316
Joined: January 2005
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
sparky 4
BigB 3
Popular Topics(Views)
248,691 Are you busy
186,427 Re: Forum
175,913 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.029s Queries: 16 (0.006s) Memory: 1.0304 MB (Peak: 1.2099 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-08-22 03:38:47 UTC