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2011 NEC Section 410.130(G) Disconnecting Means. #200271
03/27/11 11:03 AM
03/27/11 11:03 AM
Joe Tedesco  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
When I opened a neutral splice in a fluorescent fixture once, that was still energized it felt like I was kicked in the head by a horse! shocked dunno

410.130(G) Disconnecting Means.

(1) General. In indoor locations other than dwellings and associated accessory structures, fluorescent luminaires that utilize double-ended lamps and contain ballast(s) that can be serviced in place shall have a disconnecting means either internal or external to each luminaire. For existing installed luminaires without disconnecting means, at the time a ballast is replaced, a disconnecting means shall be installed. The line side terminals of the disconnecting means shall be guarded.

Exceptions are open for discussion. Also what is different about "dwellings and associated accessory structures"?


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Arc Flash PPE Clothing, LOTO & Insulated Tools
Re: 2011 NEC Section 410.130(G) Disconnecting Means. [Re: Joe Tedesco] #200273
03/27/11 12:03 PM
03/27/11 12:03 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Maybe the lesson is that instructors should stick to seminars, and inspectors to inspecting - and that neither has any business using tools? laugh

It's all warm and fuzzy to write a nice rule ... but we saw a preview of this when the NEC required panic hardware on certain doors. What sort of hardware, and installed by whom?

The devil is in those details, and we've discussed them here a few times.

Re: 2011 NEC Section 410.130(G) Disconnecting Means. [Re: Joe Tedesco] #200276
03/27/11 12:41 PM
03/27/11 12:41 PM
Joe Tedesco  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Boston, Massachusetts USA
"For existing installed luminaires without disconnecting means, at the time a ballast is replaced, a disconnecting means shall be installed." is new in the 2011 NEC

Again, what is different about "dwellings and associated accessory structures.

PS: I should have mentioned that my first electrician's license was back in 1962 as an E4 in Connecticut.


Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Re: 2011 NEC Section 410.130(G) Disconnecting Means. [Re: Joe Tedesco] #200277
03/27/11 12:51 PM
03/27/11 12:51 PM
G
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 963
Chicago Illinois USA
Reno;
Don't forget that wonderful rule that ALL motors had to be the much more expensive energy efficient type.
Even that monster 100 Hp motor on the fire pump that runs 15 minutes a year for testing...and hopefully never needs to run to control a fire!
That's money that could have been better spent buying a better quality switchboard, etc.

Re: 2011 NEC Section 410.130(G) Disconnecting Means. [Re: Joe Tedesco] #200310
03/28/11 09:09 AM
03/28/11 09:09 AM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,050
Brick, NJ USA
Joe:
Back to your question.

Perhaps it's a numbers issue, as there are (on average) fewer fluorescent fixtures within a resi than comm?

The intent of reducing/eliminating a possible hazard to untrained (or under trained) unqualified persons would be the same in any location IMHO.

I still come upon the occasional jobsite where the 'factory' 'sta-con' connectors are cut off & laying on the floor.

Another issue is how is this to be enforced with replacement ballasts? Here the replacement is considered an 'ordinary repair' and no permit/inspection is required.



John
Re: 2011 NEC Section 410.130(G) Disconnecting Means. [Re: Joe Tedesco] #200312
03/28/11 11:16 AM
03/28/11 11:16 AM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Ahh ... an interesting detail, that fixtures used in homes need not have the disconnects.

Perhaps this is related to a)the ban on 277 lighting in homes and b)the documented deaths of electricians replacing 277 ballasts 'hot?'

As I've observed here before ... even lacking a NEMA standard on the disconnects, the entire issue would be decided if only ONE ballast maker - Advance - were to include the gizmos with their ballasts. Advance has a large enough market share that their choice would become the 'de facto' standard.

Re: 2011 NEC Section 410.130(G) Disconnecting Means. [Re: Joe Tedesco] #200315
03/28/11 01:47 PM
03/28/11 01:47 PM
G
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 963
Chicago Illinois USA
I think it has to do with the boss in an office insisting that you work it hot, while the boss at home is either the homeowner or their spouse.


Ghost307
Re: 2011 NEC Section 410.130(G) Disconnecting Means. [Re: Joe Tedesco] #200326
03/28/11 08:47 PM
03/28/11 08:47 PM
Brian_Rock  Offline
New Member
Joined: Mar 2011
Posts: 5
Connecticut
This "other than dwellings and associated accessory structures" wording goes back first to the Proposals for the 2005 NEC®. Back then, this 410.130(G) was numbered to fall into 410.79 and was ultimately designated as 410.79(G).

From the May 2004 ROP, Proposals 18-92 (Log #1780) from Craig Wellman and 18-93 (Log #3421) from Danny Liggett proposed this requirement, each with slightly different wordings.

The original wording in those Proposals was "other than dwellings and related/associated outbuildings".

For your question, a portion of the Substantiation to P18-92 (Log #1780) goes to the heart of your question:
"In commercial, industrial, institutional and government facilities, it is often unsafe or impractical to turn off power to luminaires at the panelboard. Turning off the power may leave a room in the dark or may reduce illumination, which in some cases can/could create work related hazards for facility occupants. ..."

So, reading between the lines, the distinction seems to be that dwellings and associated accessory structures are exempted from this luminaire disconnect requirement because:
• dwellings are not as large as those other occupancies to have as great a distance between panelboard and the luminaire being serviced
• rooms in dwellings generally have windows (for fire egress) that allow natural illumination whereas those other occupancies more typically include rooms without windows


Re: 2011 NEC Section 410.130(G) Disconnecting Means. [Re: Joe Tedesco] #200330
03/28/11 09:00 PM
03/28/11 09:00 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,050
Brick, NJ USA
Brian_Rock:

Welcome to ECN forums from one of the 'Jersey Guys'!!

Thanks for the detailed information on this subject.


John
Re: 2011 NEC Section 410.130(G) Disconnecting Means. [Re: HotLine1] #200371
03/29/11 05:09 PM
03/29/11 05:09 PM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,371
so the large facility being hazardous to operate in the dark validates 70E for a signed waiver to be written every ballast change motivated this code?

~S~

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