ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
220/230/240V 60Hz Systems
by gfretwell. 09/16/18 12:37 PM
Acronis Backup 2017
by gfretwell. 09/16/18 12:46 AM
Inspection camera help
by Bill Addiss. 09/15/18 11:32 AM
Tingle off the water spigot
by Trumpy. 09/15/18 03:24 AM
Lighting Load questions
by HotLine1. 09/14/18 07:04 PM
New in the Gallery:
Plug terminals
Housebilding DIY wiring
Who's Online Now
1 registered members (Bill Addiss), 25 guests, and 23 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Power Theft:: Is it in Your Designs? #197348
11/22/10 01:21 PM
11/22/10 01:21 PM
renosteinke  Offline OP
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Another thread(about feeders) mademe realize that I have never given power theft any specific consideration in my designs. What about you?

When the other halfof my duplex was the local dope house, I was wide open to someone tapping into the lines as they passed through the attic. Considering the 'cleverness' often shown by meth-heads, it's almost a miracle that no attempts were made- especially when their power was cutoff.

I have certainly seen examples of power theft -be they tapping into the building's outside lighting, or even the service drop with some 'zip'cord- but I've never really given the topic much thought.

How would you design in some resistance to power theft?

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Power Theft:: Is it in Your Designs? [Re: renosteinke] #197349
11/22/10 02:54 PM
11/22/10 02:54 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,287
Estero,Fl,usa
I think the best answer of you were really worried would be feeders in RMC if they were exposed or better, put the feeder under concrete. Out of sight, out of mind.
Even EMT could be compromised fairly easily. Just crack off an end to end connector and separate the pipe far enough to get a Kupltap in there. A wrench tight RMC connector is a lot harder to displace.
The only place I really saw them interested in power diversion was the prisons and they really tried to have everything in the dorm areas behind the block wall.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Power Theft:: Is it in Your Designs? [Re: gfretwell] #197351
11/22/10 06:11 PM
11/22/10 06:11 PM
T
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
The most commonly available routes to power theft is shunting tenant loads on to house circuits in a commercial setting.

However easy such a thing might be done -- it isn't because of many factors starting with landlord provisioned circuits being so often on a dependent switch-leg of a timed circuit.



Tesla
Re: Power Theft:: Is it in Your Designs? [Re: Tesla] #197356
11/22/10 09:09 PM
11/22/10 09:09 PM
T
twh  Offline
Member
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
Regina, Sask.
We plug in our cars in the winter. In lots open to the public, the power must be off at night.

Re: Power Theft:: Is it in Your Designs? [Re: twh] #197357
11/22/10 09:29 PM
11/22/10 09:29 PM
renosteinke  Offline OP
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
twh, that's a good point! With the advent of 'electric cars' and such, I bet we start seeing a lot more hanky-panky in light pole bases!

Re: Power Theft:: Is it in Your Designs? [Re: renosteinke] #197358
11/22/10 09:57 PM
11/22/10 09:57 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,024
Brick, NJ USA
We had an instance last year of an individual with a camper (slip-in type) parked in a muni lot for a period of time. That lot has power receptacles in pedastals & pole bases for civic events. The guy in the camper was very comfortable & cozy until someone noticed. He left very peacefully.

I only recall two resi theft of service from the POCO. One being a SFD that fell on hard times; he ripped up the meter pan to gain access to the line side & installed jumpers. Burned up one line/load jaws in the pan, then relocated all his cbs to the remaining phase. Snip at the pole cured that.

The other was squatters in a vacant 2 family. That was cured by a snip at the pole, after they wrecked the two meter pans.





John
Re: Power Theft:: Is it in Your Designs? [Re: HotLine1] #197360
11/22/10 10:45 PM
11/22/10 10:45 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,287
Estero,Fl,usa
Most of the power thefts here are pot grow houses.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Power Theft:: Is it in Your Designs? [Re: gfretwell] #197361
11/22/10 11:36 PM
11/22/10 11:36 PM
N
NORCAL  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 882
There was a thread here many moons ago showing pictures of power theft 1 in particular,showed a rigid riser into a semi-flush panel where it had been cut open to access the PoCo conductors to tap off for their veggie growing operation......

Re: Power Theft:: Is it in Your Designs? [Re: NORCAL] #197362
11/23/10 01:23 AM
11/23/10 01:23 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,287
Estero,Fl,usa
I heard about one where they put a plumbing tee in the riser where it went through the roof to Soffit area and had a loop in the line on a service change. I think it was the cops who eventually found it when they raided the house.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Power Theft:: Is it in Your Designs? [Re: gfretwell] #197363
11/23/10 10:18 AM
11/23/10 10:18 AM
renosteinke  Offline OP
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Well, Greg .... that's not quite what I meant by designing for power theft. laugh One must give them credit for planning ahead, though.

There's only so far you can go with materials and planning. Sure, it helps to use pipe and ru n it in inaccessible places - but I recall one Holmes episode where the thieves core drilled the foundation with surgical precision.

I expect that the final solution would be to have multiple meters, at each end of the line in question. One in the electric room and another at the panel.

As already mentioned, the thief does not always tap his own line. The two power thefts I've encountered involved a tenant tapping into the 'house' power. One of those involved a tap on a branch circuit - so the only means of detection would have been to measure the actual use of that circuit over time.

Circuit layout and identifaction also matters. When a circuit hops all over the place - a common result when the circuit is modified over time - it's just too easy for a circuit to wind up serving multiple tenants as walls get moved about in various remodels. While this may not be deliberate theft, one party pays for the other's use.

Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
dougwells
dougwells
kamloops BC Canada
Posts: 1,149
Joined: May 2003
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 13
Trumpy 11
sparky 9
Popular Topics(Views)
249,295 Are you busy
187,228 Re: Forum
176,589 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.025s Queries: 16 (0.004s) Memory: 1.0289 MB (Peak: 1.2106 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-09-20 02:52:30 UTC