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Table 310.15[B],16 #197143
11/11/10 02:56 PM
11/11/10 02:56 PM
K
KJay  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
Looking over the changes to what was previously Table 310.16, does this mean we can no longer use 20A for #14 and 25A for #12 at 60-degree C for derating purposes?
If so, I can see this causing some new installation issues requiring conductor upsizing.

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Table 310.15[B],16 [Re: KJay] #197182
11/13/10 07:51 PM
11/13/10 07:51 PM
K
KJay  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
Hmmm, no input on this?

Re: Table 310.15[B],16 [Re: KJay] #197193
11/14/10 01:39 PM
11/14/10 01:39 PM
G
gfretwell  Online Content

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,303
Estero,Fl,usa
I don't have the 2011 yet. I suppose that may be why other are not jumping in.
Did they change the 60c rating for small conductors?
I can see this affecting motors and HVAC more than derating.
Don't you derate from the 90c?


Greg Fretwell
Re: Table 310.15[B],16 [Re: gfretwell] #197247
11/16/10 12:24 PM
11/16/10 12:24 PM
K
KJay  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
Good point. I donít have my new code book in hand yet either, so I guess Iím getting a little bit anxious since around here we have to be ready to hit the ground running on January 1.

Re: Table 310.15[B],16 [Re: KJay] #197249
11/16/10 02:08 PM
11/16/10 02:08 PM
G
gfretwell  Online Content

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,303
Estero,Fl,usa
Florida won't get around to adopting this until 2012 or later if the past is any indication.

I am really waiting for the handbook CD. I don't travel around much and I am starting to like the CD format.
I will probably just buy it here at ECN. Last time they were about the same as everywhere else and I would just as soon help out these guys.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Table 310.15[B],16 [Re: gfretwell] #197252
11/16/10 03:35 PM
11/16/10 03:35 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,039
Brick, NJ USA
Greg:
I have a 2011 & the 'free' PDF. When I get home tonite, I'll try to cut/paste 310.16 & get it up here.

I have NOT had any time (to speak of) to open the 2011 yet, & like you, I'm waiting for the handbook & CD.



John
Re: Table 310.15[B],16 [Re: HotLine1] #197255
11/16/10 07:42 PM
11/16/10 07:42 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,039
Brick, NJ USA
Here's part of 310.15(b)
"(B) Tables. Ampacities for conductors rated 0 to 2000 volts
shall be as specified in the Allowable Ampacity Table
310.15(B)(16) through Table 310.15(B)(19), and Ampacity
Table 310.15(B)(20) and Table 310.15(B)(21) as modified by
310.15(B)(1) through (B)(7).
The temperature correction and adjustment factors shall
be permitted to be applied to the ampacity for the temperature
rating of the conductor, if the corrected and adjusted
ampacity does not exceed the ampacity for the temperature
rating of the termination in accordance with the provisions
of 110.14(C).
Informational Note: Table 310.15(B)(16) through Table
310.15(B)(19) are application tables for use in determining
conductor sizes on loads calculated in accordance with Article
220. Allowable ampacities result from consideration of
one or more of the following:
(1) Temperature compatibility with connected equipment,
especially the connection points.
(2) Coordination with circuit and system overcurrent protection.
(3) Compliance with the requirements of product listings
or certifications. See 110.3(B).
(4) Preservation of the safety benefits of established industry
practices and standardized procedures.
(1) General. For explanation of type letters used in tables"

Anyone who can enlarge this font, please do so (with my blessings)

Last edited by HotLine1; 11/16/10 07:47 PM. Reason: Added note

John
Re: Table 310.15[B],16 [Re: HotLine1] #197299
11/18/10 03:15 PM
11/18/10 03:15 PM
K
KJay  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
Regarding the article HotLine posted above, does this mean we can still us the 90C column for derating purposes for NM cables or must we now start at 60C.

"The temperature correction and adjustment factors shall
be permitted to be applied to the ampacity for the temperature
rating of the conductor, if the corrected and adjusted
ampacity does not exceed the ampacity for the temperature
rating of the termination in accordance with the provisions
of 110.14(C)."

Re: Table 310.15[B],16 [Re: KJay] #197301
11/18/10 04:56 PM
11/18/10 04:56 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,039
Brick, NJ USA
Not to be critical, but....that sounds like one of our (NJ) many lawyers wrote that!

I'm pondering what it says when time permits


John
Re: Table 310.15[B],16 [Re: HotLine1] #197309
11/18/10 07:21 PM
11/18/10 07:21 PM
G
gfretwell  Online Content

Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,303
Estero,Fl,usa
I don't read this as changing anything. We have always limited the ultimate ampacity to the rating of the termination.
You just use the 90c column for dealing with ambient temperature and bundled conductor adjustments.
If you are using one of the restricted cables (AC, MC, RX), you end up with the 60c limit anyway.

They did change the name of 310.16 to 310.15(B)(15) but I don't think it changed. (that was a Mike Holt proposal, just to maintain continuity in 310.15)


Greg Fretwell
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