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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445 Likes: 3
Cat Servant Member
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You misunderstood my point. I was referring to the code language that says that the small appliance circuit cannot serve other areas.
For example, the OP was describing the same circuit as serving the dining room and the living room. This would be a violation, since the dining room is served by an SABC.
That the kitchen counter circuit might serve the dining room is not an issue; that it might serve the living room is.
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
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Reno,
OK, say there is a SABC for the counter that then runs to a dining room receptacle. The receptacle on the counter is GFCI, does the recptacle on the same circuit have to be on an ACFI circuit. (Even if they are both on the same branch circuit?)
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,931 Likes: 34
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Short answer Harold is yes. You would need an AFCI breaker on the circuit and GFCI protection at the countertop. If you used the combo AFCI/GFCI you would save a device.
Greg Fretwell
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Joined: Jan 2004
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Greg-
I think they don't make a AFCI/GFCI Device. The AFCI device has GFCI protection yes, but not at the 4-6 ma required for people protection. The combo device is one that protects from series and parallel arcs. Maybe I missed something.
George Little
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,445 Likes: 3
Cat Servant Member
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Harold, it's little glitches like this one which form part of the reason I oppose AFCI's, at least as a code matter. It's also why I have campaigned so long for AFCI devices.
Call it another example of unintended consequences ....
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
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Thanks Greg, I'll check it out.
George Little
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Joined: Jul 2004
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As far as I know CH is the only company doing this but it is not surprising since they invented the AFCI in the first place. They were also the driving force behind 210.12 and I bet they were thinking ahead to a time when all circuits will be AFCI, even the traditional GFCI outlets.
There is no real hardware problem why AFCIs need to protect at 30ma, it is just as easy to make it 5ma but you get more nuisance tripping.
Greg Fretwell
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Joined: Nov 2007
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Something I’ve been wondering about for a while regarding those AFCI/GFCI breakers is that according to the C/H catalog, they apparently are only available in a branch feeder type cb. I also noticed this discrepancy on their website as well.
In theory, wouldn’t this mean they couldn’t be used, since the combination type AFCI cb’s are required as of 01/08?
I this possibly just a typo in the C/H catalog and on their website?
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Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 2,233
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Reno, I was also anti AFCI because I am not sure how well they perform. I still hear many EC's complain that the ACFI's are falsely tripping. (I don't know if there is truth to their statement either or if there really is a true problem with the circuit.) I also do not like how the code is being driven by the manufactures of equipment. I have stated more than once, that no matter how idiot proof we try to make our houses, someone will kill themselves and the code will get changed. 
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Posts: 144
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