ECN Forum Forums Code Related Discussion NEC & other Code issues Fire Pump feed

Good points, I forgot that there were no plans. Thanks for the correction.

Shane

Shane:
IMHO, the OP has no information, nor direction from the client/customer. The 'wire this' (hook-up) approach kind of leads me to believe that $$$ is an issue for a design pro.

I mean no offense to Yoop, but getting involved with a D/B job, without the required (here in NJ) license for the 'D' part & the insurance for the 'D' part would be a bad choice. Permit applications for the Twp. I work in must comply with all requirements (plans by lic design pro) & specs, just like any other application.

Design pro or not nobody seems to know the answer or even where to look for it. Kinda interesting. (I used to carry a New Jersey masters License Hard test).Droped it when I retired.

Yooper-
Here's your original post:

Existing Junction Box with service wires 3/350mcm 3 phase 480 volt, out of that feeds Fire pump controller , then seperate run to another service disconnect.
They want to add transfer switch & generator.
Can one transfer switch be used for both
Fire pump controller & control power panel?
generator sizing ? (remember Fire Pump)
125 hp 3 phase. 480
10kva Transformer for misc. 480/120/240v 1phase

Now as I see it the job is in violation before you even touch it. Fire pump must have it's own Service or Xformer. If they want a Generator that's great but don't combine it with the rest of the loads. Check with the local inspector, submit plans for proposed generator/transfer switch etc. and let the AHJ give you direction.

Existing Junction box With Service conductors (before any disconnects)(695.3 A (1). (ahead of but ot within same cabinet.) This is located in remote Pumphouse one room.
All the rest of Loads just about required to keep pumping station running Including Fire pump. Remember Water System not single building. Fire pump for Lack of Pressure.
If from utility Company transformer where do you get seperate Transformer??? Seperate Service yes Transformer???

Yoopersup,


It seems like you are going to be caught between a rock and a hard place. If you brought that design to my town, I would ask you to get a letter from an EE signed and sealed telling me exactly what the design is about. Then I would compare what he wrote to the NEC and see if it meets code. My state (NJ) will allow EC's to design electrical systems for 1 & 2 family houses but not for large industrial jobs. That would have to be designed by an engineer. I wouldn't want to be the one to have to "Name" this project. Engineers get paid good money to design projects like this, they are the people to design it.

I know it must be designed, I know it must go through plan review, But seems to me theres a lot of inspectors & qualified people that are on this site that might be reviewing prints such as theses.So I take then that they take it for granted what ever the designer puts on the prints well pass????Since all I get for answers is Ask the engineer?? There must be Tons of similar pump unit set ups like this all over the Country.
When this comes up for Plan Review Where well the Plan Reviewer go for the answer???
Yoopersup

Yoop

"But seems to me theres a lot of inspectors & qualified people that are on this site that might be reviewing prints such as theses"

FWIW, I have not had to review anything as you describe.

Fire Pumps (and I have reviewed many) have individual POCO service, none have included a genset.

"So I take then that they take it for granted what ever the designer puts on the prints well pass????"

Yes, it will 'pass', as long as it is compliant with the adopted NEC. On average, for Plan Review, 3 to 5 rejection letters are generated every week. Design professionals are, like you and I, human...and we all make mistakes.

"When this comes up for Plan Review Where well the Plan Reviewer go for the answer???"

The 2008 NEC, for the Electrical design (edit to add "CODE COMPLIANCE"), and pass plans on to the Fire Subcode Official for his NFPA Code compliance review & comments.(edit to add hydrostatic design compliance)

Fire Pumps for Buildings easy, Add a Generator Same.
I know what NEC says about Buidings (Keep it seperate, Rated fire pump controller ect. Fire Pump service Seperate , from Regular service ect. Its all there 696 nec.
But this is Different as I said,Its a Township water supply (not stand alone building) One building Remote, Two pumps tied to control system thats tied to water tower tank,all
interconnected Second pump only when high demand (such as Fire in township area fed by pumping station,) as Tank not large enought..So if you put a Firepump Controller in & Generator starts, Without other controls for pumphouse on Generator Then What.
Am I making this to confusing??
By the Way the NEC is not a design Manual .& most Fire Code officals know Nothing about Electrical.

Yoop:
I added a few missing words/phrases to my above comments.

IMHO, you have a water pump, not a fire pump per say. There is no reason that I'm aware of that you cannot put the pump and support equipment on a genset.

Where/Why does the 'Fire Pump Controller' come into the picture?

Did someone ask for or specify a Fire Pump Controller?

edit to add.....

I would go back up to Scott's reply, use his scenario, but I would 'bump' the gen up to 250KW, as from my experience as an EC, working for a few different Twps, they always find something else to 'add-in'