ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat
Recent Posts
Well I am back to stay (nearly 6 years)
by Bill Addiss - 09/26/21 11:09 PM
How's all our Non-US folks doing?
by Lostazhell - 09/26/21 08:09 PM
nec 110.3 (B)
by HotLine1 - 09/26/21 03:42 PM
Grounding electrodes
by gfretwell - 09/07/21 03:41 PM
New in the Gallery:
Now you know.
Now you know.
by Tom_Horne, September 7
February, North East Indiana
February, North East Indiana
by timmp, July 25
Who's Online Now
0 members (), 9 guests, and 21 robots.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 237
Member
I have a code question about derating...
If I use #10 on a 20A branch ckt for volt drop purposes, do I have to pull a #10 grounding conductor as well? Or can I still use a #12?

Thanks guys,
H20

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 237
Member
think 250-122(B) requires me to pull a #10 as well, if I am interpreting this correctly... increase size(no reason given I.E. derating for # of cond. in raceway or volt drop.

Is this correct interpretation?

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,663
Likes: 4
G
Member
That is the way I read it too.

The only time I see you getting a possible break is if you went from a #10 to a #8 since a #10 is the standard EGC for a #8 (up to 60a)


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,282
Likes: 3
Member
I have to agree with Greg.


John
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 237
Member
Thanks

Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 613
M
Member
The Canadian code recently changed to require this. Bonding wires used to be sized according to the breaker or fuse size but this created a problem for long runs where the bond wire would be say #14 but the circuit conductors had to be #6 for VD reasons IE still a 15 amp circuit.
Current rules now size the bonding wire (equipment ground) to the circuit conductor. A very good rule change which the NEC already had that lowered the impedance of the return wire so the breakers or fuses would trip faster.

Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
G
Member
Hey Mikesh, I think the Canadian Code is the same as the NEC on this but I don't have a copy of the Canadian Code. The NEC requires us to increase the EGC when we increase the ungrounded conductors and they use the word "proportionately". There's an easy way to do that using Table 8 in the back of the NEC.


250.122(B)

Last edited by George Little; 08/24/10 06:07 PM.

George Little
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 613
M
Member
George
Yes the current rules in the 2009 Canadian code does require the bond (equipment ground) wire to be sized according to the circuit wire size and use table 16.
So if the load was 12 amps but it was far enough away to need a bigger wire than #14 then the bond wire must get bigger too.
In the CEC before 2009 the bonding wire never had to get any bigger than #14 because the circuit was connected to a 15 amp breaker and it was the breaker or fuse size that used to determine the bond wire size.
The new way compensates for voltage drop on the bond wire and the old rule did not. So the old way was like adding a resistor to a fault a long way out from the source and did cause longer trip or longer fusing.
I think the NEC has always had this one right and the CEC only just got it right in 2009.

Joined: Nov 2000
Posts: 2,148
R
Member
Greg,
Going up in wire size without changing the size of the OCPD will not change anything. If you have a 20 amp breaker, the EGC must be the same size as the ungrounded conductor, no matter how large that conductor is.


Don(resqcapt19)
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,663
Likes: 4
G
Member
That is where 250.122 becomes ambiguous. If that is true, you can't upsize using a cable wiring method greater than #8 since once you get to #8, cables have smaller EGCs.


Greg Fretwell
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Link Copied to Clipboard
Featured:

Tools for Electricians
Tools for Electricians
 

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Posts: 362
Joined: April 2003
Top Posters(30 Days)
timmp 3
Popular Topics(Views)
283,553 Are you busy
216,859 Re: Forum
203,211 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5