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#195124 - 07/12/10 11:06 PM Another "Safer" Receptacle :(  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#195129 - 07/13/10 01:19 AM Re: Another "Safer" Receptacle :( [Re: renosteinke]  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,223
SI,New Zealand
I don't know John, I honestly don't know about this sort of technology.
However I don't think that it warrants the use of a mad smiley.
I'm all for electrical safety, I should be, that is 9/10ths of my job.

Someone has had a good enough idea, I think that they should be given the chance to market the thing, if it dies, it dies, however, if people take it up, so be it, all power to the guy wanting to make a change.



#195131 - 07/13/10 01:55 AM Re: Another "Safer" Receptacle :( [Re: Trumpy]  
EV607797  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2006
Posts: 745
Fredericksburg, VA, USA
I'm all in for safety as well, but until all device manufacturers are able and willing to play in the same sandbox, I don't see this technology happening in our lifefimes. Granted, if NEMA comes up with a uniform standard, this would be possible. I just don't see that happening in this economy. Not to mention, it appears that TED has all of the patents in place for this technology, with plenty more patents pending.

Has anyone thought about the lightning/surge aspect of such devices? I'd think that it would be a bit difficult for a house full of solid-state electronics in every receptacle (and plug) to not sustain at least one failure during every storm. That is just the nature of the beast.

Lastly, is the typical user of an electrical receptacle really going to look at the LED indicator to make sure that the device they have plugged-in is safe? Of course not. A teenager plugging in the charger for their cell phone or I-Pod certainly has much higher priorities.

Like I said, I'm all in on the safety aspect of things. The problem is that until the human element is eliminated, these devices are useless. There went my two cents for the day....


---Ed---

"But the guy at Home Depot said it would work."

#195134 - 07/13/10 02:17 AM Re: Another "Safer" Receptacle :( [Re: EV607797]  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,223
SI,New Zealand
Originally Posted by EV607797

Has anyone thought about the lightning/surge aspect of such devices? I'd think that it would be a bit difficult for a house full of solid-state electronics in every receptacle (and plug) to not sustain at least one failure during every storm. That is just the nature of the beast.



Ed,
Any such lightning/surge protection should be taking place at the panel end of circuits, not the sub-circuit end, it's too late by the time it's passed the panel and the GEC.
What this sort of technology means is that you will have to up-sell surge diverters.
Considering that everyone and their dog has a new LCD/plasma screen as well as computers, etc to protect, why is this such a hard sell?


#195140 - 07/13/10 06:15 AM Re: Another "Safer" Receptacle :( [Re: Trumpy]  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
claims being the operative word Reno.

inasmuch as i don't feel this one device is impressive, the interesting thing about the video (if i understand it correctly) is the 300+ applications for patent re; point of use protection.

the premis seems to be a valid pursuit juxtaposed to some electronic device that may be 100, or even 1000 feet in wire length away

it appears we have what is commonly coined a market backburn here, as this article's specifics still applies almost a decade after it was penned eh?

~S~


#195143 - 07/13/10 08:42 AM Re: Another "Safer" Receptacle :( [Re: sparky]  
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
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Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
If I didn't know better, I would have thought the video was an April Fools' joke.

Overloads: readily addressed by putting a fuse in the plug.

Arcing: The AFCI is already required. Plus, shielded 'safety' cords are already on the market, and can be found at any Wal-Mart.

Kiddies sticking fingers in the socket: Already addressed by "child proof" receptacles.

The statistical assertions are completely unsupported; the necessary data doesn't exist, and the studies we do have point to other factors.

The opening artwork of extension cords, etc., is exactly the same artwork used by Cutler-Hammer in the pre-1999 pitch for the AFCI. Remember the AFCI device?

Not only does this widget 'save the children,' it 'saves the environment' as well! Just let Big Brother follow behind you and decide whether you really need to have that light on.

Not content to make you replace every receptacle, this thing would also require you to replace every appliance. Yea, that'll save resources.

Finally, it has patents! "Patents" are simply a legal monopoly. While protecting intellectual property has some value, to follow this with a government fiat - and such would be an absolute necessity for this idea to work - is an example of the worst form of corruption.

That sales pitch is full of feel-good sentiments, buzzwords, and cant. Either a road to Hell paved with good intentions, or a cynical appeal to the useful idiots of whom Lenin spoke. Take your pick.


#195154 - 07/13/10 01:42 PM Re: Another "Safer" Receptacle :( [Re: renosteinke]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,874
Brick, NJ USA
I see this as another business venture, based on the safe aspect of a device and technique developed by the business, and a 'sales pitch' based on safety. Similar to another device on another thread here.

Yes, the OL can be accomplished by a fuse in the plug, and shielded cords are another 'safe' device, along with AFCA, GFCI, TR & WR devices. BUT...how about all the existing devices, plugs-cords, etc that are out in the real world?

Older structures, often within inner cities, will not benefit from this, or most any other technology that is 'new'.

Appliances that are 'existing' will not benefit, now will a person be able to use a 'good' appliance IF they install this device. So, will someone come up with an adaptor, similar to the 3 to 2 for use in 'ungrounded' receptacles??

Cord caps with fuses sure sounds like an easier solution, although there are a lot of 'replacement' cord caps on the shelves, and probably will be available for a long, long time.

A solution? I don't have one, and I strongly doubt anyone else has one that will be foolproof.

Reno, thanks for the link!





John

#195158 - 07/13/10 08:26 PM Re: Another "Safer" Receptacle :( [Re: HotLine1]  
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,311
Quote
If I didn't know better, I would have thought the video was an April Fools' joke.

Overloads: readily addressed by putting a fuse in the plug.

Arcing: The AFCI is already required. Plus, shielded 'safety' cords are already on the market, and can be found at any Wal-Mart.

Kiddies sticking fingers in the socket: Already addressed by "child proof" receptacles.

True that this is all said and done at some point, somewhere in our collective electrical history Reno

Quote
The statistical assertions are completely unsupported; the necessary data doesn't exist, and the studies we do have point to other factors.

The opening artwork of extension cords, etc., is exactly the same artwork used by Cutler-Hammer in the pre-1999 pitch for the AFCI. Remember the AFCI device?

Good catch. Further would be the methodology utilized by the agency responsible for collecting 'fire' stats>
the National Fire Incident Reporting System
This is a point of interest that often comes up, yet validation is rarely pursued.
As a former FF, i was incensed by the lazie faire attitude of minimal forensics directing major blame. But in the grander scope i find some cosolance in the old addage Correlation does not imply causation as is much of what is foisted upon us by corporate self enlightenment


Quote
Not only does this widget 'save the children,' it 'saves the environment' as well! Just let Big Brother follow behind you and decide whether you really need to have that light on.

Not content to make you replace every receptacle, this thing would also require you to replace every appliance. Yea, that'll save resources.

Finally, it has patents! "Patents" are simply a legal monopoly. While protecting intellectual property has some value, to follow this with a government fiat - and such would be an absolute necessity for this idea to work - is an example of the worst form of corruption.

That sales pitch is full of feel-good sentiments, buzzwords, and cant. Either a road to Hell paved with good intentions, or a cynical appeal to the useful idiots of whom Lenin spoke. Take your pick.

I honestly believe there are still honest intents, bloody do-gooders, and sorts that truly wish to help a situation and/or their fellow man , albeit they may susequently pave that road to predition without realizing it. I also believe many of them were bought out, and therby stifled. But what seems the root of your comment would be if the market, and in our case, the electrical market, is self-correcting.
This is where the debate turns toward Keynesian economics, being just as applicable as any other faction of the market
T'would be a issue for all you old timers that have seen the trade turn many times opine on eh?

~S~



#195159 - 07/13/10 08:55 PM Re: Another "Safer" Receptacle :( [Re: sparky]  
NJwirenut  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2001
Posts: 806
Bergen County, NJ
So if I understand this scam correctly, anyone who wants to manufacture AC powered appliances would effectively be forced to license this technology, or their devices would be unable to receive power from an outlet. And all existing appliances would require new cordsets in order to continue using them.

All for the benefit of the consumer, of course...

Such a setup would make all the various media DRM and anti-piracy schemes look downright harmless.


Last edited by NJwirenut; 07/13/10 09:02 PM.

#195160 - 07/13/10 09:32 PM Re: Another "Safer" Receptacle :( [Re: NJwirenut]  
HotLine1  Offline


Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,874
Brick, NJ USA
NJwirenut:

I think 'scam' is a little harsh.

Yes, this item sounds like an idea, looking for a market with the 'fear factor' of IMHO inflating the cause of fires related to electricity.



John

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