ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
Changing a Bulb
by gfretwell. 07/14/18 03:12 PM
Tray cable?
by gfretwell. 07/11/18 10:18 PM
Eaton Heavy Duty 30A and 60A Safety Switches
by Admin. 07/11/18 09:49 PM
ORTOVOX Recalls Avalanche Transceivers
by Admin. 07/11/18 09:44 PM
Tingle off the water spigot
by gfretwell. 07/08/18 12:58 PM
New in the Gallery:
Plug terminals
Housebilding DIY wiring
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 11 guests, and 18 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Page 1 of 2 1 2
PFCI ? OFCI ? #194919
06/30/10 02:01 PM
06/30/10 02:01 PM
S
sparky  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,349
No technology located in a circuit breaker or fuse panel could detect a high-resistance wiring fault, as no measurable characteristic exists that differentiates a glow fault from normal branch circuit operation. Power Fault Circuit Interrupters (PFCI) located in receptacles are designed to prevent fires caused by glowing connections in premise wiring or panels. From the receptacle, a PFCI can detect the voltage drop when high current exists in a high resistance junction. In a properly designed circuit, substantial voltage drops should never occur. Proper wire terminations inside utilization equipment (e.g. appliances, lamps, heaters) and cords prevent high-resistance connections that can lead to fires.

Excess current can heat entire lengths of wire. Thermal circuit breakers are designed to protect against excess current through the permanent circuit wiring. However, excess current through the smaller wires in utilization equipment can exist, at levels below the trip thresholds of a circuit breaker. Overload fault circuit interrupters (OFCI) are designed to protect against excess current drawn by utilization equipment. OFCIs must be located within receptacles. Both thermal circuit breakers and OFCIs are required to prevent fire ignition from excess current.


from wiki>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arc-fault_circuit_interrupter


anyone ever heard of, or seen these devices ?

~S~

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: PFCI ? OFCI ? [Re: sparky] #194920
06/30/10 03:31 PM
06/30/10 03:31 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,985
Brick, NJ USA
~s~:
I recently saw something about a device (Duplex recept) that had some overload protection as selling point.

I can't remember where...possibly the 'lectricians toolbox site that I went to out of boredom! I looked thru recent posts here & do not see the thread.

It featured a 'glowing' termination on a screw terminal of a recept if I remember.

Later


John
Re: PFCI ? OFCI ? [Re: HotLine1] #194921
06/30/10 05:04 PM
06/30/10 05:04 PM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,894
NY, USA
Originally Posted by HotLine1
~s~:
I recently saw something about a device (Duplex recept) that had some overload protection as selling point.

I can't remember where...possibly the 'lectricians toolbox site that I went to out of boredom! I looked thru recent posts here & do not see the thread.

It featured a 'glowing' termination on a screw terminal of a recept if I remember.

Later
Is this it?

http://www.electrical-classifieds.com/27_fire_prevention_outlet

Re: PFCI ? OFCI ? [Re: Bill Addiss] #194922
06/30/10 05:37 PM
06/30/10 05:37 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,985
Brick, NJ USA
Bill:
You do not cease to amaze me!!!

That's it!

Check it our Sparky


John
Re: PFCI ? OFCI ? [Re: HotLine1] #194925
06/30/10 09:09 PM
06/30/10 09:09 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
Just a caution ....

The "UL" listing is just for the device as a receptacle. UL has NOT evaluated the claimed protective features of the device.

Nor, for that matter, are they likely to ... until the technology is completely free from an patent/trademark protections, and the NEC recognizes it.

If that ever happens, I'll let you know ... I "know someone" on the appropriate committee.

Re: PFCI ? OFCI ? [Re: HotLine1] #194926
06/30/10 09:40 PM
06/30/10 09:40 PM
S
sparky  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,349
Originally Posted by HotLine1
Bill:
You do not cease to amaze me!!!

That's it!

Check it our Sparky


Nor I...good shootin' Bill

Fact is, i'm rather fascinated Hotone, enough that i called a one Mr. Michael Strauss, Chairman & CEO (well i called and he was kind enough to call me back promptly) inquiring as to his new product

link here

One might recall the point of use debates that circulated when the afci debuted....


The interesting thing is, this product, apparently predicated itself via Joule's first law of thermodynamics>

Product DescriptionThis device consists of multiple sensors which detect abnormal heat at each outlet contact and binding head screw terminal. When such heat is detected, the sensors activate, the load fully disconnects, and an indicator pin protrudes from the face of the device. The user can easily see that abnormally high heat activated the device, which is no longer functional a feature that prevents further damage to the existing wiring. We recommend that a licensed professional inspect the fault condition and replace the outlet.

So, instead of having Mr. Strauss spend his time answering to just one electrician, begging the induldgence of the moderators ,i've asked him here to explain it en masse' (and Mike, if you can sell this crew, your in like flint!)


~S~


Re: PFCI ? OFCI ? [Re: renosteinke] #194927
06/30/10 09:49 PM
06/30/10 09:49 PM
Trumpy  Offline

Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,236
SI,New Zealand
Just a little thing about terminations at fittings themselves.
Now I'm not trying (or willing) to put the boot into the way things are done in the US, but I've never really liked the idea of the "wire under the screw" method of connecting a wire to a device.

Having said that, I don't have a problem with it per se, where an electrician that does heaps of these connections every day of the week and can just about do it with their eyes closed and with the proper tools.

But, when you get someone doing their own electrical work at home, there is a chance the copper could be nicked or some of the copper wire stripped away, resulting in a lower integrity connection with the screw and a higher resistance connection.
Or you have the person that winds the wire around the wrong way and it moves out from under the screw as it is tightened.
For this reason alone, I prefer the tunnel type terminals we use over here, they are virtually fool-proof.

I do however, like the concept of the receptacle that Bill linked to, a LOT of energy is dissipated at bad connections.

Re: PFCI ? OFCI ? [Re: Trumpy] #194928
06/30/10 10:59 PM
06/30/10 10:59 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,985
Brick, NJ USA
Trumpy:
FWIW, we have 'tunnel' terminations on devices here, on 'specification grade' devices.....which are premium $$ priced. They always were my 'choice', and were great with stranded conductors. Keep in mind also on this corner of the world, the NMC is solid conductors.



John
Re: PFCI ? OFCI ? [Re: HotLine1] #194931
07/01/10 12:09 AM
07/01/10 12:09 AM
Bill Addiss  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,894
NY, USA
Originally Posted by HotLine1
Bill:
You do not cease to amaze me!!!

That's it!

Check it our Sparky
LOL!

Well, maybe some disclosure is appropriate here....

I've got one on the desk in front of me. smile

It's a local company and I was approached about possibly selling them last year.

Bill
smile

Re: PFCI ? OFCI ? [Re: Bill Addiss] #194932
07/01/10 12:34 AM
07/01/10 12:34 AM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,985
Brick, NJ USA
Disclosure? I'm looking at a bottle of ice tea that's empty & a clock that says it bed time!


John
Page 1 of 2 1 2

Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Samurai
Samurai
Fl.
Posts: 46
Joined: May 2007
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 5
Popular Topics(Views)
248,142 Are you busy
185,601 Re: Forum
174,942 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.037s Queries: 16 (0.007s) Memory: 1.0303 MB (Peak: 1.2115 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-07-20 18:23:42 UTC