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#192257 02/03/10 01:38 PM
Joined: Oct 2002
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Been a while since I've done a new home. Are outlets that are installed on a kitchen "island" required to be on a GFI if it is over 6ft. from the sink?? thanks... Steve

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Joined: Jul 2004
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G
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All receptacles that serve a counter top, it has nothing to do with the sink.


Quote
210.8(A)(6) Kitchens where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Feb 2008
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R
Member
to many smart electricians moving the receptacle 6ft 1 in

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G
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GFCI protection actually goes beyond the idea of just "water". In the kitchen you are going to be using a lot of hand held appliances which can put the user in the fault path and there is always that pesky fork in the toaster problem.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Feb 2008
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R
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Originally Posted by gfretwell
GFCI protection actually goes beyond the idea of just "water". In the kitchen you are going to be using a lot of hand held appliances which can put the user in the fault path and there is always that pesky fork in the toaster problem.
Water never was a consideration but the fact that the piping to the sink presented a source to ground the idea was that short appliance cords and a persons reach would fall within the six foot.

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G
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Hey Greg- Hate to pick on you but, what's the fork in the toaster problem? Toasters don't have to be grounded. When is the last time you saw a domestic toaster with a ground prong on the cap? The metal parts of a toaster are not grounded.


George Little
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That is exactly the problem George. When you stick the fork in there to dislodge the toast you can energize the whole case. If you have the GFCI it should trip if the user is in the fault path to ground. I understand in a stick built house with a vinyl floor there may not be an effective ground path without the plumbing (that might be plastic anyway) but here we have slab on grade with terrazzo or tile floors and that is an excellent ground path. I suppose if you always wear shoes it is not a problem but the first night in this house I found the defective ground electrode system when I touched the cook top (among other things). I am not sure exactly what the problem was but it sure woke me up.
The next day I was putting in GFCIs, tightening up stuff in the panel and driving new rods.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,507
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Got to argue with you Greg, I've been told by people who I considered to be in the know that that's exactly why they don"t ground the frame of a toaster. Most people use a fork to retrieve a piece of toast or muffin from the toaster. It's a pretty safe bet they could get the fork between the energized part and the frame of the toaster. Since the frame is not grounded- no harm.


George Little
Joined: Jul 2004
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G
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Is the fork energized? Is the user holding it? Is the user grounded? There is your fault path.

Energizing the case of the toaster with the fork just makes it more likely the user could come in contact with an energized part, even if the fork had an insulated handle.

At this point the only thing that can save the user is not having a path to ground anywhere on their body.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 165
R
Member
I noticed on the wifes new toaster you can push the lever up to raise the toast out of the slot

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