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#192257 - 02/03/10 01:38 PM Kitchen island outlets  
sparkync  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2002
Posts: 828
NC
Been a while since I've done a new home. Are outlets that are installed on a kitchen "island" required to be on a GFI if it is over 6ft. from the sink?? thanks... Steve


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#192258 - 02/03/10 02:16 PM Re: Kitchen island outlets [Re: sparkync]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,124
Estero,Fl,usa
All receptacles that serve a counter top, it has nothing to do with the sink.


Quote
210.8(A)(6) Kitchens where the receptacles are installed to serve the countertop surfaces


Greg Fretwell

#192452 - 02/14/10 12:45 PM Re: Kitchen island outlets [Re: gfretwell]  
Rewire  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 165
Missouri
to many smart electricians moving the receptacle 6ft 1 in


#192454 - 02/14/10 02:10 PM Re: Kitchen island outlets [Re: Rewire]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,124
Estero,Fl,usa
GFCI protection actually goes beyond the idea of just "water". In the kitchen you are going to be using a lot of hand held appliances which can put the user in the fault path and there is always that pesky fork in the toaster problem.


Greg Fretwell

#192455 - 02/14/10 05:00 PM Re: Kitchen island outlets [Re: gfretwell]  
Rewire  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 165
Missouri
Originally Posted by gfretwell
GFCI protection actually goes beyond the idea of just "water". In the kitchen you are going to be using a lot of hand held appliances which can put the user in the fault path and there is always that pesky fork in the toaster problem.
Water never was a consideration but the fact that the piping to the sink presented a source to ground the idea was that short appliance cords and a persons reach would fall within the six foot.


#192456 - 02/14/10 07:18 PM Re: Kitchen island outlets [Re: Rewire]  
George Little  Offline
Member
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Hey Greg- Hate to pick on you but, what's the fork in the toaster problem? Toasters don't have to be grounded. When is the last time you saw a domestic toaster with a ground prong on the cap? The metal parts of a toaster are not grounded.


George Little

#192457 - 02/14/10 07:40 PM Re: Kitchen island outlets [Re: George Little]  
gfretwell  Offline


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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,124
Estero,Fl,usa
That is exactly the problem George. When you stick the fork in there to dislodge the toast you can energize the whole case. If you have the GFCI it should trip if the user is in the fault path to ground. I understand in a stick built house with a vinyl floor there may not be an effective ground path without the plumbing (that might be plastic anyway) but here we have slab on grade with terrazzo or tile floors and that is an excellent ground path. I suppose if you always wear shoes it is not a problem but the first night in this house I found the defective ground electrode system when I touched the cook top (among other things). I am not sure exactly what the problem was but it sure woke me up.
The next day I was putting in GFCIs, tightening up stuff in the panel and driving new rods.


Greg Fretwell

#192459 - 02/14/10 09:00 PM Re: Kitchen island outlets [Re: gfretwell]  
George Little  Offline
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Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,489
Michigan USA
Got to argue with you Greg, I've been told by people who I considered to be in the know that that's exactly why they don"t ground the frame of a toaster. Most people use a fork to retrieve a piece of toast or muffin from the toaster. It's a pretty safe bet they could get the fork between the energized part and the frame of the toaster. Since the frame is not grounded- no harm.


George Little

#192464 - 02/15/10 04:20 AM Re: Kitchen island outlets [Re: George Little]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,124
Estero,Fl,usa
Is the fork energized? Is the user holding it? Is the user grounded? There is your fault path.

Energizing the case of the toaster with the fork just makes it more likely the user could come in contact with an energized part, even if the fork had an insulated handle.

At this point the only thing that can save the user is not having a path to ground anywhere on their body.


Greg Fretwell

#192473 - 02/15/10 05:32 PM Re: Kitchen island outlets [Re: gfretwell]  
Rewire  Offline
Member
Joined: Feb 2008
Posts: 165
Missouri
I noticed on the wifes new toaster you can push the lever up to raise the toast out of the slot


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