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Boilers #192248 02/03/10 12:50 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
T
twh Offline OP
Member
A trip to ND turned up this boiler installation when a man asked if I wanted to take a look at his son's heating system. I will point out that I do them a little differently.

[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

Back-up Heat Source: [Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

Fan/Coil Unit: [Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

Main Circulating Pump (permanent wiring):[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

Primary Heat Source Pump (temporary wiring):[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

Domestic Hot Water (also permanently wired):[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Boilers [Re: twh] #192251 02/03/10 01:01 AM
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 908
N
NORCAL Offline
Member
Hillbilly engineering.

Re: Boilers [Re: NORCAL] #192260 02/03/10 07:45 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,379
Trumpy Offline
Member
Good Lord!!

Honestly, could this get any rougher? eek

That car radiator is the finishing touch though, IMO.

Re: Boilers [Re: Trumpy] #192275 02/04/10 07:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,803
Alan Belson Offline
Member
That sure looks both a mess and a hazard, but it needen't have been like that. These pics show that you can fit an amazing amount of equipment into a small space, make it easy to service yet still create a nice neat job - with a lot of planning cool
The fir-ply backing board shown here is just 8' x 4'
The system is fed with hot water from a separate boiler room, fired by oil.

[click to enlarge pics]

[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

The whole board: including main 20A isolator, 3 variable output 100W circulation pumps, 3 motorized valves, 2 mechanical mixer-valves [85deg C to 40 deg C for underfloor heating, blue caps ], 2 x duplex breaker panels, 2 main wiring boxes, a digital programmer, 2 wireless programmer receivers, a top-up valve and water gage to maintain the system at 20 psi, 3 x 12v halogen luminaire transformers, domestic hot and cold water pipes and isolator jacks, basin and shower gravity drain, feeds to heated floor hydronic manifolds. All copper pipework 7/8", flow and return, is soldered or compression jointed, with every maintainable component isolatable by 3/4" ball valves for servicing - plus a work light and a recep. The cupboard [it's under the staircase] also contains a 2kW x 150 liter horizontal electric domestic water heater [out of view], the ironing board, all our best china in a cabinet, the fridge, [which backs in from the kitchen] - and our vacuum cleaner!

[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

Close up of programmers. The upper digital unit time controls 85deg C water to a conventional radiator circuit, [ with stats on each rad], feeding 3 beds, a lounge, a [redundant] kitchen and a bathroom. The 2 white receivers control two underfloor heating zones at 40deg C. serving about 2000 sq ft on two floors, lounge, kitchen, a utility room, 1 x downstairs khazi. 2 beds, 2 bathrooms upstairs. Their programmers are freestanding room models, controlling times and temperatures as required. The breaker unit at right contains the EDF relay which switches the water heater on only during low tariff periods - I can overide it if needed.

[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

Part view of pipework, sub-junction boxes etc. and the main manifolds to the floor heating. This system has been running now for about 2 years, the dust is from finish sanding of woodwork and sheetrock in adjacent rooms. As you can see from pic 1, I still have to finish the oak wainscotting and frame out the door. I've been remodelling this house for years - so no rush! crazy
The green verdigris on some of the pipes is from the special flux I used to solder the pipework with lead-free stuff - I obviously didn't wash it all off properly! blush


Wood work but can't!
Re: Boilers [Re: Alan Belson] #192280 02/04/10 11:46 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
T
twh Offline OP
Member
Some people don't care about being neat:

[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com] [Linked Image from electrical-photos.com] [Linked Image from electrical-photos.com] [Linked Image from electrical-photos.com] [Linked Image from electrical-photos.com] [Linked Image from electrical-photos.com] [Linked Image from electrical-photos.com] [Linked Image from electrical-photos.com] [Linked Image from electrical-photos.com] [Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

Last edited by twh; 02/04/10 11:53 PM. Reason: Formatting
Re: Boilers [Re: twh] #192281 02/05/10 12:44 AM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
T
twh Offline OP
Member
Alan, I've never seen a controller for a boiler like that. I usually get a box of spare parts that the plumber left behind.

What is the boiler like?

Re: Boilers [Re: twh] #192283 02/05/10 09:58 AM
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 984
G
ghost307 Offline
Member
I remember one truly amazing Boiler Room that was the complete opposite of the one above.

It was the Central Plant located in a Catholic hospital in Kankakee, Illinois.
The Operating Engineer was one of the Sisters.

I had heard the expression "you could eat off the floor" but I had never seen an example before. I have since seen some patient-care areas of hospitals that weren't as clean as she kept her Plant.

Even the glass on the gauges and the thermometers were spotless. If there was ever a leak in there, you'd sure find it in an instant.


Ghost307
Re: Boilers [Re: ghost307] #192285 02/05/10 10:33 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,803
Alan Belson Offline
Member
[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]
I have two systems running off the same boiler, a conventional water radiator zone and 2 zones of hydronic underfloor.
It's really a very simple system to control. Each programmer sends a signal that heat is required to a motorised valve. This has a relay built in, so that backfeeds don't occur. The relay contact starts the pump [circulator] and sends a signal to the boiler to fire up. When you have three sets of controls running in tandem, the wiring gets a bit complicated so I put in all in two large junction boxes. As you can see I used European type choc-blocks, and annotated each circuit for faulting out. This pic was taken during trials, hence the thermometers.

[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

The radiator circuit is run, hardwired, by what is basically a digital clock, although it has some features like on/off, day, 24 hours etc. Temperature is controlled by tweaking each radiator's thermostatic valve. The underfloor system has 2 wireless programmers. These send signals to open the relevant motorised valve. The programmers can be set to temperature and have 4 timed programmes to suit lifestyles plus a customisable option. Two temperature levels can be preset, for example at night we drop the temperatures by about 8F. The units are user friendly.

[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

This is my boiler, running a pressure jet burner on diesel, although I am currently building a vegetable oil fueled burner. It is jetted for about 20kW. I run it pressurised at about 20psi. The fluid is water/glycol [antifreeze] plus inhibitors, hence the hand-pump for refilling at pressure after mending leaks blush. The red ball is a diaphragm type pressure bottle which accomodates fluid expansion.


Wood work but can't!
Re: Boilers [Re: Alan Belson] #192292 02/05/10 07:00 PM
Joined: Nov 2002
Posts: 790
W
wa2ise Offline
Member
[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

Looks like my place, though I wouldn't leave the cover off the circuit breaker panel. eek

Re: Boilers [Re: wa2ise] #192358 02/09/10 11:39 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
T
twh Offline OP
Member
This is my favourite boiler room. The electrical engineer forgot the MCC and put the fire pump controller in the wrong room. After these were added the mechanical engineer decided to put three heat pumps in the room. Add in geo-thermal and it's hard to take pictures.

From the door:
[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

The East Walkway:
[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

The other end of the East Walkway:
[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

The West walkway:
[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

The other end of the West walkway:
[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

Fire Pump Controller:
[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

The boilers:
[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

Behind the boilers:
[Linked Image from electrical-photos.com]

Last edited by twh; 02/09/10 11:40 PM.
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