ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Shout Box
Recent Posts
220/230/240V 60Hz Systems
by gfretwell. 09/16/18 12:37 PM
Acronis Backup 2017
by gfretwell. 09/16/18 12:46 AM
Inspection camera help
by Bill Addiss. 09/15/18 11:32 AM
Tingle off the water spigot
by Trumpy. 09/15/18 03:24 AM
Lighting Load questions
by HotLine1. 09/14/18 07:04 PM
New in the Gallery:
Plug terminals
Housebilding DIY wiring
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 31 guests, and 24 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
Replacing GEC #1914
06/07/01 04:20 PM
06/07/01 04:20 PM
Bill Addiss  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,901
NY, USA
When doing an Residential service upgrade and the GEC to the Water main is replaced, what do you do with the old one? Leave it connected or cut it out? Please include your reasoning.

[Linked Image]
Bill

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Replacing GEC #1915
06/07/01 05:09 PM
06/07/01 05:09 PM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,360
ok i'll play!
if it is truely an 'upgrade' then the GEC required is probably larger, the old clamps are probably rusted, etc.]
usually i find the old connections NG due to corrosion, and replace with new geased ( no-lox) clamps.
The older ones usually do not 'jump' the meter, so in that sense they are NG also.


so why leave the old one anyhow? i don't get it? am i slow here? hey,if you were dropped on your head as a baby would it be your fault???


[Linked Image]

[This message has been edited by Webmaster (edited 06-07-2001).]

Re: Replacing GEC #1916
06/07/01 05:23 PM
06/07/01 05:23 PM
Bill Addiss  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,901
NY, USA
Sparky,

(Serious question)

Many times one of the utilities has bonded to the original GEC with a split bolt and it was closed up in the wall or ceiling. can't always be sure if something is using it or not. I guess the question really is if there is any harm in leaving it?

Hey, what if all the 3 prong receptacles were installed on old 2 wire cable and bonded to that old GEC as it ran past. If you cut it all your Grounds are then NG (we're PG rated here). [Linked Image]

What do you think?

Bill

[This message has been edited by Bill Addiss (edited 06-07-2001).]

Re: Replacing GEC #1917
06/07/01 05:55 PM
06/07/01 05:55 PM
A
Anonymous
Unregistered

If it is in good shape, I would be strongly inclined to leave it.

If it is deteriorated and I can remove it, I would remove it, just like any other deleted wiring.

If I can't remove it, then I have to bond it.

Leaving it hanging is not an option.

Re: Replacing GEC #1918
06/07/01 09:10 PM
06/07/01 09:10 PM
Bill Addiss  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,901
NY, USA
Dspark,

I'm inclined to keep it too if I can't see the full length of it I can't tell if it's being used as a path by other things. I figure that even if it is disconnected or cut from one end (or too short to reach) it is still serving a purpose to 'other' bonded items if any should exist.

Bill

Re: Replacing GEC #1919
06/07/01 09:49 PM
06/07/01 09:49 PM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,360
Ok,
that's different,
the next Q that comes to mind would be how to assess the hidden GEC's usage.

Re: Replacing GEC #1920
06/07/01 09:59 PM
06/07/01 09:59 PM
Bill Addiss  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,901
NY, USA
Sparky,

The point is that if it's not detrimental in some way it can be left in place. If it is hidden by finish it might be better left alone, or at least connected at one end.

Bill

Re: Replacing GEC #1921
06/08/01 07:14 AM
06/08/01 07:14 AM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,360
ok, in the particular case you pose, it would no longer be a GEC, it would be a 'bond' , or ECG right? so it's connection would follow suit.

If the original connection was in question, would you move this to the closest JB ???

[Linked Image]

Re: Replacing GEC #1922
06/08/01 08:12 AM
06/08/01 08:12 AM
Bill Addiss  Offline OP
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 3,901
NY, USA
Sparky,

It would be a bond, yes. Do you know of any reason why it shouldn't/couldn't be allowed to remain connected at both ends? That way it would also serve as a redundant/backup GEC?

Bill

Re: Replacing GEC #1923
06/08/01 08:47 PM
06/08/01 08:47 PM
S
sparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 5,360
Well Bill,
I don't see what harm it can do to leave the old GEC connected. I have done many service changes where the meter or the panel are moved.(As i am sure you have also)

I have utilized the old GEC and electrodes simply because i beleive more earth contact will achieve the 25 ohms or less ruling, and as you've stated, the possibilty of a backup.

GEC's can be installed in singular runs, so by code we could have as many seperate GEC runs as electrodes we desire.

If the original GEC has been installed correctly, the only possible parrallel path would be back to the serving utility X-former through common water or other mettalic lines in the event of a noodle faluire ( old ground, i know)

The event of a lighting strike or other power surge would, in theory, see ampacity divide among the many GEC's

better???

[Linked Image]


Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
Tom
Tom
Shinnston, WV USA
Posts: 1,044
Joined: January 2001
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Admin 13
Trumpy 11
sparky 10
Popular Topics(Views)
249,289 Are you busy
187,226 Re: Forum
176,587 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.1
(Release build 20180101)
Page Time: 0.020s Queries: 14 (0.003s) Memory: 1.0087 MB (Peak: 1.1850 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2018-09-19 22:31:39 UTC