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Trouble with Intermatic T103 instructions #191148
12/19/09 05:21 PM
12/19/09 05:21 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,323
Estero,Fl,usa
I am arguing with an installer about the T103 timer.
This thing is clearly in a NEMA 1 case (indoor only) but there is nothing in the instructions (sticker) or on the box that says so. In fact the box says
Parking lot lighting
Billboard lighting
Commercial lighting
Pools/Spas/Fountains
Electric Water Heaters
Outdoor Lighting

How can you enforce 110.3(B) when the label is wrong?


Greg Fretwell
Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Trouble with Intermatic T103 instructions [Re: gfretwell] #191149
12/19/09 05:30 PM
12/19/09 05:30 PM
N
NORCAL  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 882
The "installer" needs to be smart enough to know the can is NEMA 1.

"Parking lot lighting
Billboard lighting
Commercial lighting
Pools/Spas/Fountains
Electric Water Heaters
Outdoor Lighting"

It does not mean your have to stick the can outside........

Last edited by NORCAL; 12/19/09 05:32 PM.
Re: Trouble with Intermatic T103 instructions [Re: NORCAL] #191150
12/19/09 06:45 PM
12/19/09 06:45 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,323
Estero,Fl,usa
It is pretty hard to make that case when 5 of the 6 recommended uses are "outside" applications and the label says nothing about "indoor only". I know it is a NEMA 1 can but it is hard to prove, based on anything available in or on the package.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Trouble with Intermatic T103 instructions [Re: gfretwell] #191151
12/19/09 06:48 PM
12/19/09 06:48 PM
K
KJay  Offline
Member
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
MA, USA
Could the box with the part number that the timer came in still be kicking around somewhere?
No idea why they donít label their individual timers or mention it in the listed instructions, but for what it's worth, the Intermatic product page says T103 is the part number for the timer with the standard drawn steel case.
So the T103 timer with the optional NEMA 3R case would be T103R and with the optional plastic case, it would be a T103P.
Looks like it is also available with an optional see-thru plastic cover, which would be part number T103PCD82.

Here is the product info:
Intermatic T103

Re: Trouble with Intermatic T103 instructions [Re: gfretwell] #191153
12/19/09 07:09 PM
12/19/09 07:09 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Member
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
I'll say this based entirely on my first-had experience with actually performing "wet location" tests (NEMA, UL, and others):

That basic Intermatic enclosure might just pass the NEMA 3R test. I's a very close call. The test applies a strong rain at a 15-degree angle to the enclosure. At the end of the test, it's only required that there not be an 'objectionable' amount of wather having accumulated in the enclosure. With the connections a good inch above the bottom, and all KO's located below them, it just might pass.

Still, the Intermatic web site, in discussing this timer, refers to it as a NEMA-1 case. Whether you can buy a new case separately, or have to get the whole assembly is another issue - but there is a NEMA-3R case available. (This case may be plastic).

It should be pointed out that the 'outdoor' model has a different part number, T103R.

In Nevada, the standard case has proven more than adequate outdoors and unprotected. I'm not justifying the practice - this is just an observation after seeing decades-old installations continue to perform well.

Of course, you get a wee bit more rain in Florida .... and salt corrosion may be a factor. The NEMA-3R metal boxes are made of a heavier steel.

I'd consider all the circumstances, including whether the timer is sheltered by the building, etc.

Re: Trouble with Intermatic T103 instructions [Re: renosteinke] #191154
12/19/09 07:25 PM
12/19/09 07:25 PM
electure  Offline

Member
Joined: Dec 2000
Posts: 4,276
Fullerton, CA USA


The T103R can is gasketed and has a hasp closure.....Like an ammo can.

The T103 can is not gasketed and has a padlockable tab that fits through a hole in the face of the cover, similar to what might be at the bottom of a 3R cover on a panel.

Re: Trouble with Intermatic T103 instructions [Re: electure] #191155
12/19/09 07:37 PM
12/19/09 07:37 PM
G
gfretwell  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,323
Estero,Fl,usa
I know the difference and in Florida the plastic case is the one I would recommend because, even the 3R case will be rusted out pretty fast.
I was just disappointed that there wasn't more guidance on the box or the installation label. Of course Home Depot, where the installer ("maintenance" sort of guy) bought this, sold it is "outside" based on the box.
I will take this to Intermatic.com and see what they say.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Trouble with Intermatic T103 instructions [Re: gfretwell] #191163
12/19/09 08:34 PM
12/19/09 08:34 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Member
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,050
Brick, NJ USA
Greg:
Is there not a label on the inside of the door with any info? I ask, as I have not checked a 101/103 enclosure out lately.



John
Re: Trouble with Intermatic T103 instructions [Re: HotLine1] #191182
12/20/09 02:34 AM
12/20/09 02:34 AM
G
gfretwell  Offline
OP
Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,323
Estero,Fl,usa
There is nothing on the box, on the label or on the enclosure that indicates the weather rating.
I would expect it on the product spec label on top of the box, even if it was nowhere else.
The only place I could find the rating was in the catalog, in the chart referenced above that has the model numbers for each timer model. I don't carry one of those catalogs, does anyone else?

My big problem is these are in a "retail" box, not something you would expect at a supply house and they are marketed directly to consumers at the big box stores.
If the customer read anything available on the box they would assume this was OK outside (3R) and wouldn't ever be told any different until a "code geek" like me told them wink
I am still not sure I convinced the guy and I know he used it. I did talk him into going around the corner under cover with it so it was "damp" and not "wet" but I bet it is rusted out in a couple years.
I do see a lot of these outside and I have replaced more than a few that were falling apart.


Greg Fretwell
Re: Trouble with Intermatic T103 instructions [Re: gfretwell] #191186
12/20/09 05:35 AM
12/20/09 05:35 AM
M
maintenanceguy  Offline
Member
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 300
Southern NJ, USA
Seems to me that you don't need to prove it's not a 3R case, the installer needs to show the label that shows that it is a 3R case.

No 3R label, not 3R.

A listing outdoor applications isn't a 3R label.

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