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Re: Generator outlet [Re: zorinlynx] #189952 10/30/09 09:21 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,213
S
SteveFehr Offline
Member
Originally Posted by zorinlynx
Pardon me if I don't see the issue here.

Are not neutral and ground normally strapped together at the distribution panel?

Since the genset is the power source, distribution panel and outlets all in one, wouldn't it make sense to strap them together there?

Or should they be strapped together before the run to the outlet?

Since the frame of the generator MIGHT be grounded, I would want a nice solid return path in the event that hot shorts to a metal chassis in a tool that I'm using. Better to trip the breaker than have 120V AC finding a convoluted path through my body, into the ground and back to the genset...

Correct my amateur self if I'm wrong. smile
I completely agree, there is no problem here, in fact the neutral MUST be strapped to ground per code, and this is as good a place as any for the manufacturer to do so. Big commercial generators do the exact same thing, just with a larger wire.

Of course, modern generators of this sort should be GFCI protected. The GFCI would work just fine even without any solid bonding to ground. If the generator is insulated and there is a ground fault somewhere, no current flows because the "hot" wire is now the only grounded point in the system, and the ground/neutral are now rotating 120V above ground. Of course, it's highly unlikely that the hot will be grounded and ground not intentionally or incidentally grounded at some point. This is why the ground/neutral bond must be made on the line side of the GFCI circuit. If it's a very weak incidental ground, like the grounded gen rails are sitting on a concrete slab, you still might not get the 5ma required to trip the GFCI, but then, if you're not getting 5ma, then it's not really an issue, is it?

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Re: Generator outlet [Re: SteveFehr] #189971 10/31/09 10:35 AM
Joined: Dec 2001
Posts: 2,486
T
Texas_Ranger Offline
Member
It is like an IT system - one ground fault and you're fine because you just grounded one leg of the generator like in house wiring. If you get two ground faults then things get nasty.

Re: Generator outlet [Re: Texas_Ranger] #190072 11/05/09 04:21 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7
F
farmANhvacguy Offline
New Member
So then its ok for 20 amps to flow from neutral thru tab into ground screw into outlet body.........the ONLY connecting to the commen ground/neutral on this generator is the plate screw into the frame... Doesnt seem right to me

Re: Generator outlet [Re: farmANhvacguy] #190077 11/05/09 11:38 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
I think you have the flow backwards.

There's a neutral wire back to where the generator makes the electricity; what's lacking is the ground wire. So, only current that has energized the frame will use that tab, to return to the system.

Re: Generator outlet [Re: renosteinke] #190272 11/10/09 04:18 AM
Joined: Nov 2008
Posts: 7
F
farmANhvacguy Offline
New Member
no reno this is my picture there was NO neutral wire..the tab was the "neutral wire"


On the new outlet I ran a wire from the commen ground/neutral block and ran a green wire from the outlet to the generator frame.

this seems a little bit safer to me

Last edited by farmANhvacguy; 11/10/09 04:20 AM.
Re: Generator outlet [Re: farmANhvacguy] #190281 11/10/09 12:03 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
OK, if that's the case, I stand corrected ... and I don't like the design either.

Re: Generator outlet [Re: renosteinke] #190344 11/12/09 01:27 AM
Joined: Mar 2007
Posts: 404
noderaser Offline
Member
So, there was only a hot connection, and neutral/ground through the generator frame?

Re: Generator outlet [Re: noderaser] #190345 11/12/09 01:45 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 144
Happy Birthday JoeKP Offline
Member
do we have a generator model, i want to go look up a wiring diagram...


-Joe
“then we'll glue em' then screw em'”
-Tom Silva
TOH
Re: Generator outlet [Re: JoeKP] #190349 11/12/09 04:18 AM
Joined: Feb 2003
Posts: 939
F
frenchelectrican Offline
Member
I am pretty sure the OP mention to me some time back it is a WINCO pto generator I don't recall what KW size it is but I am pretty sure it is 15 KW size but I will let the OP give the correct infomation here.

Merci,Marc


Pas de problme,il marche n'est-ce pas?"(No problem, it works doesn't it?)

Re: Generator outlet [Re: WESTUPLACE] #190583 11/24/09 11:48 PM
Joined: Nov 2009
Posts: 10
L
Luc Offline
Member
No need for a ground to trip a GFI, as it simply measures the current going thru the hot, and compares to neutral. If they're not the same, GFI trips, aggravates user. XD

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