ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
Top Posters(30 Days)
dsk 13
Admin 8
Recent Posts
OD of Alum and Copper
by Yoopersup. 08/23/17 09:05 AM
Grid problem??
by annemarie1. 08/21/17 01:10 PM
Bathroom electrical
by doc. 08/19/17 06:53 AM
electircal ageing test on IPC
by SIAME. 08/15/17 02:43 AM
electrical aging test on IPC
by gfretwell. 08/15/17 12:27 AM
New in the Gallery:
Gallery Test
Popular Topics(Views)
240,134 Are you busy
175,759 Re: Forum
167,949 Need opinion
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 72 guests, and 7 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate This Thread
Page 1 of 3 1 2 3
#189359 - 10/03/09 09:06 PM Spray foam filled electrical outlets  
nhsparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 19
N.H.
I have a customer (recent widow) who lives in a large home on the lake. In the winter the wind pressure is so great she can't get her kitchen temp over 50. She recently had a spray foam contractor foam her attic. While there, she asked him if they could fill the electrical boxes. He said he could and he did! Three floors worth. When I found out and expressed my opposition and displeasure about it she got back in touch with them. They told her the foam is non flammable and code compliant.Although I intuitively know this is illegal, I cant find any code language to back me up. Any thoughts? My next call is to my state inspector, but I thought I would start here first.
Thanks,
Dave.


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades

#189360 - 10/03/09 09:12 PM Re: Spray foam filled electrical outlets [Re: nhsparky]  
sparkyinak  Offline
Member
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,327
Alaska
Is it listed for the application?

Last edited by sparkyinak; 10/03/09 09:13 PM.

"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa

#189362 - 10/03/09 09:24 PM Re: Spray foam filled electrical outlets [Re: sparkyinak]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,105
Estero,Fl,usa
Quote
110.12(B)Integrity of Electrical Equipment and Connections. Internal parts of electrical equipment, including busbars, wiring terminals, insulators, and other surfaces, shall not be damaged or contaminated by foreign materials such as paint, plaster, cleaners, abrasives, or corrosive residues. ...


I would include foam in that category


Greg Fretwell

#189363 - 10/03/09 09:24 PM Re: Spray foam filled electrical outlets [Re: sparkyinak]  
nhsparky  Offline
Member
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 19
N.H.
Is it listed for the application?


I haven't seen any paper work yet. foam guy said he will bring it to her but I still can't believe filling an electrical box full of spray foam is acceptable.


#189367 - 10/03/09 11:39 PM Re: Spray foam filled electrical outlets [Re: nhsparky]  
ghost307  Offline
Member
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 907
Chicago Illinois USA
If you fill the box with foam, what does that do to the device and wiring fill calculations? Won't the wiring devices be unable to get rid of their waste heat?
I'm sure that UL doesn't test these things wrapped up like a pig in a blanket.


Ghost307

#189370 - 10/04/09 03:16 AM Re: Spray foam filled electrical outlets [Re: ghost307]  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,217
SI,New Zealand
I would get the MSDS from the installer and a statement in writing that this material is non-flammable.
If it is foam like I am imagining, it ISN'T non-flammable at all.
Having this sort of thing in such close proximity to a possible bad connection of what-not, is just asking for trouble.
There are better ways to achieve a good seal in boxes, you just need to use a bit of grey-matter.

You also have to ask about the quality of the house construction, if the building cannot be heated to any great degree.
I'd be talking to the Contractor about that, it is HIS problem.


Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

#189371 - 10/04/09 03:26 AM Re: Spray foam filled electrical outlets [Re: Trumpy]  
gfretwell  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,105
Estero,Fl,usa
I think it is a lot simpler than that. We regularly tag panels and boxes that get too much drywall mud in them on a 110.12(B) and require that they get cleaned out.
(don't we?).
That is clearly not a flammability issue it is "contamination" by a "foreign material".
We can think of a number of reasons why the foam is bad but I wouldn't over think this.


Greg Fretwell

#189373 - 10/04/09 04:34 AM Re: Spray foam filled electrical outlets [Re: gfretwell]  
Trumpy  Offline


Member
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,217
SI,New Zealand
Originally Posted by gfretwell
We regularly tag panels and boxes that get too much drywall mud in them on a 110.12(B) and require that they get cleaned out.

Who in their right mind would leave a panel open to plaster and paint damage, in a new install?
There are things called masking tape and paper (or plastic film).
There is no reason that these materials should be finding their way into electrical enclosures, no matter how small.


Let's face it, these days if you're not young, you're old - Red Green grin

#189374 - 10/04/09 12:24 PM Re: Spray foam filled electrical outlets [Re: Trumpy]  
NORCAL  Offline
Member
Joined: Sep 2002
Posts: 872
Originally Posted by Trumpy
Originally Posted by gfretwell
We regularly tag panels and boxes that get too much drywall mud in them on a 110.12(B) and require that they get cleaned out.

Who in their right mind would leave a panel open to plaster and paint damage, in a new install?
There are things called masking tape and paper (or plastic film).
There is no reason that these materials should be finding their way into electrical enclosures, no matter how small.


Cardboard being removed by others, stupid painters who are too lazy to mask it off, the list goes on and on.....


#189379 - 10/04/09 04:24 PM Re: Spray foam filled electrical outlets [Re: NORCAL]  
Tesla  Offline
Member
Joined: Jun 2004
Posts: 1,273
Sacramento, CA
Romex foamed in this manner must loose its ability to dump heat.

This is an issue worthy of an NEC revision/ NTL evaluation.

And as for the box foam-fill...

Of course it's a violation. The urethane foam is combustible.


Tesla

Page 1 of 3 1 2 3

Member Spotlight
HappyElectrician
HappyElectrician
Penn USA
Posts: 31
Joined: December 2011
Show All Member Profiles 
Featured:

2017 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2017 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Shout Box
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.6.0
Page Time: 0.028s Queries: 17 (0.004s) Memory: 0.8228 MB (Peak: 1.0034 MB) Zlib enabled. Server Time: 2017-08-23 15:46:31 UTC