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Required equipment while working live #189130 09/21/09 10:57 AM
Joined: Jan 2004
Posts: 54
L
leespark Offline OP
Member
I am working on a small job at a local university where we were required to install 2 20 amp 120 volt circuits into a 200 amp 3 phase panel. After we installed the wires in the panel the building manager is requiring us to file an energized electrical permit and wear protective equipment to turn the circuit breakers on. Can I get some insight as to what protective equipmet I need to wear?

Thanks

Arc Flash PPE Clothing, LOTO & Insulated Tools
Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: leespark] #189131 09/21/09 11:54 AM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 144
JoeKP Offline
Member
only thing i can think of off the top of my head would be to wear a protective face mask


-Joe
“then we'll glue em' then screw em'”
-Tom Silva
TOH
Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: JoeKP] #189180 09/22/09 09:44 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 849
Y
Yoopersup Offline
Member
NFPA 70-E which you should have on site has a chart in it .

Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: Yoopersup] #189397 10/05/09 12:11 PM
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 1,335
S
sparkyinak Offline
Member
Not only NFPA-70E as da Yooper mentioned, the university has a hot work policy and do does your a shop. You should follow the stictor of the three. One standard may be strictor in some areas, less in others. Follow the more strictor.


"Live Awesome!" - Kevin Carosa
Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: sparkyinak] #189402 10/05/09 07:04 PM
Joined: Aug 2007
Posts: 853
L
leland Offline
Member
Nope it's not me,(another 'Lee' in this great Commonwealth (tongue in cheek))

1- How did you get those conductors into that panel with out the proper PPE?
2- How did you get the job with out a detailed outline of your safety policy?
3-CYA- You can't replace you. get the Colleges policy,add 20% to the job-(min).

4-You will need the arc flash rating of the panel and ckts. Or you just schedule a shutdown on OT. Plan on having an 'in house' guy there too.

5- once the ckts are connected. put the dead front on. No PPE required.

Oh the joys of trying to make a living!!!

Cambridge? what side of town?

Last edited by leland; 10/05/09 07:06 PM. Reason: #5
Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: leland] #189415 10/07/09 01:17 PM
Joined: Jun 2006
Posts: 613
M
mikesh Offline
Member
It sounds to me the policy is formulated without any consideration for the actual hazard. PPE is required for any work in the panel if the panel is energized. To don PPE once the breakers are installed and the wire terminated is closing the barn door after the horse has run off. It is true that some panels have fault levels high enough that PPE might be required to manually operate the breakers but for many panels that is the only thing you can do without PPE on an energized panel. All is predicated on there being an arc flash hazard greater than 0 and in some cases a denim shirt and safety glasses is all that is required if the arc hazard is low enough.

Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: mikesh] #189417 10/07/09 01:50 PM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
renosteinke Offline
Cat Servant
Member
"All that's needed" .....

That's where the waters get muddied.

"Competent" requires you to have training as to the safty risks, etc. "Sure," you think, "we all get that in our career." Well, the wonks aren't happy with that; they want you to be required to go to their seminars on a regular basis, having your 'certification' renewed. frown

Ditto for protective clothing. Apart from the US Navy asserting that all their Fatigues (denim and chambray) are 'flame/flash resistant,' and the existance of all manner of very protective clothing used for decades by welders, the wonks want a special lable on that heavy denim shirt saying "complies with NFPA ###."

Clothing makers are jumping in, with their 'proprietary' specially treated fabrics.

One ray of light is the vastly increased availability of rated clothing, due to our campaign in Iraq. Thank Al-Qaida for that, with their IED campaign. Though teseted to the NFPA standard, however, this gear may be identified to a different classification system.

Part of me is beginning to wonder if 'safety' is just an excuse used by others for their own reasons.

Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: renosteinke] #189425 10/07/09 07:42 PM
Joined: Mar 2008
Posts: 27
G
gpsparky Offline
Member
AND to top it all off, if you don't launder their specially treated fabric in the correct manner, you lose the rating.


Sometimes not getting what you want can be an incredible stroke of luck.
Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: gpsparky] #189909 10/29/09 12:49 PM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,213
S
SteveFehr Offline
Member
This gov spec is based on NFPA-70E (and incorporates all NFPA-70E requirements) and goes through most of the arc-flash requirements in plain english. It's also free:

http://www.wbdg.org/ccb/DOD/UFC/ufc_3_560_01.pdf

We all wear cotton clothes, hard hat, safety glasses and leather gloves whenever resetting a 20A 120V breaker, right?

Re: Required equipment while working live [Re: SteveFehr] #189913 10/29/09 01:09 PM
Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,546
G
gfretwell Offline
Member
Does 2 out of four count?
(Cotton and safety glasses everywhere I go.)


Greg Fretwell
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