ECN Electrical Forum - Discussion Forums for Electricians, Inspectors and Related Professionals
ECN Shout Chat
ShoutChat Box
Recent Posts
Thought this was funny
by Ronny - 12/03/20 06:08 PM
From an outsider- How does tipping work?
by gfretwell - 12/02/20 02:38 PM
Happy Thanksgiving
by Trumpy - 12/02/20 04:11 AM
Where is Everyone?
by Trumpy - 12/02/20 03:51 AM
What does your work place look like?
by Trumpy - 12/02/20 03:42 AM
New in the Gallery:
Facebook follies, bad wiring
FPE in Germany pt.2
Who's Online Now
0 registered members (), 21 guests, and 14 spiders.
Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
Previous Thread
Next Thread
Print Thread
Rate Thread
10 HP motor burning start winding contacts #188086 07/21/09 08:36 AM
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 109
Grover Offline OP
Member
I have a customer with a 10 hp 240v single phase Baldor motor that operates a the hydraulic pump on an industrial trash compactor. The compactor is operated manually, often every 5 to 10 minutes.

About once a year the start winding centrifugal switch contacts (inside the motor) burn up - nasty job to replace them, and severe inconvenience to the customer.

Any thoughts on arc suppression for these contacts? Capacitors? What value?

Thanks for hints and ideas...

Grov


Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: 10 HP motor burning start winding contacts [Re: Grover] #188088 07/21/09 10:56 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,721
Scott35 Offline
Broom Pusher and
Member
Might be worth installing a 3 Phase Motor in place of the 1 Phase Motor - provided there is 3 Phase Power available on site.

From the description of "Industrial Trash Compactor", this equipment appears to be installed in at least a Commercial location.
Additionally, one would think an Industrial Compactor would have a 3 Phase Motor driving the Pump - especially with the 10 H.P. Motor rating!

If a 3 Phase Motor is absolutely impossible to use, and this Equipment must use a 10 H.P. 240V 1 Phase Motor, try installing a Motor configuration which applies to the duty cycle.

Some possible reasons for the Start Switch's failure:

* Motor HP is insufficient for the driven Load,

* Voltage at the Motor's Terminals is below / above maximum tolerance,

* Capacitor is shorting out during start,

* Start Switch is not opening completely, contacts are bouncing when opening, or the Switch is opening too late,

* Pump is not "Unloaded" when Motor starts (high head pressure),

* Pump's bearings are tight, or sticking during Starts,

* Personnel running the Compactor are mis-using it (stop, then immediately start in the middle of the compression action; etc.),

* Control system does not allow Motor to stop completely & rest at end of Compression (forward) action, before applying the Pump / Motor to retract the Compression Assembly (reverse).

----------------------------------------------------------
----------------------------------------------------------

Take some Ampere readings, along with Voltage readings, at the Motor. Take readings during Starts (forward + reverse) and throughout the entire cycle of events.
Verify the load readings and durations.

Try these tests at different times of the day - such as off-peak AM / PM, mid-peak AM / PM, peak. Perform tests during normal work days.
An event logger would be very useful for these tests.
Just hook it up, turn it on, let it record for a week or two, then read the reports.

Along with the tests, observe the normal operation techniques by the Personnel using the Equipment. See if they are mis-using the Machine.

The problem sounds like an excessive Locked Rotor draw issue.
The Motor could be having difficulty with starts at random times, such as; the Voltage is too low during certain starts, or the Pump is difficult to start.

As mentioned before, the Motor may not be designed for this type of duty, or may be undersized - in Horse Power - for the Pump it is driving.
Verify the Pump's requirements and the Motor's duty cycle.

Lastly, if the Motor is rated for 240V and there is only 208V available, this may be the major issue overall.

Please reply with some feedback.

Good luck.

Scott


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!
Re: 10 HP motor burning start winding contacts [Re: Scott35] #188098 07/21/09 02:05 PM
Joined: Jun 2007
Posts: 301
J
JValdes Offline
Member
Whats the model and spec number on the nameplate.

Re: 10 HP motor burning start winding contacts [Re: JValdes] #188112 07/21/09 11:10 PM
Joined: Oct 2004
Posts: 132
M
mhulbert Offline
Member
What about changing this to a 3 phase motor powered by a VFD rated for 1 Phase in --> 3 Phase out? 10 HP is pretty big for single phase...is there 3 phase available?

Beyond that, everything Scott said is a place to start. If you can, check inrush current and voltage drop, maybe it's getting real low and having a hard time/

Re: 10 HP motor burning start winding contacts [Re: mhulbert] #188113 07/21/09 11:32 PM
Joined: Mar 2004
Posts: 947
T
twh Offline
Member
By "operated manually" do you mean that the operator runs the ram out until the operator feels like retracting the ram? I serviced one where the operator was stalling the motor. Maybe they need an ammeter with a red-line indicator.

Re: 10 HP motor burning start winding contacts [Re: twh] #188115 07/22/09 07:08 AM
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,803
Alan Belson Offline
Member
This machine has a hydraulic ram, so surely the pressure relief valve on the pump must dump oil to tank before the motor overloads once it's up and running? This must be a starting problem, not operator error.
I agree with other posters that 10hp is a big motor for single phase. Starting it under full pump load is probably the cause of overamperage on the starting contacts. It will momentarily draw at least 120A to start, unloaded. Has it got a startup pressure relief/dump solenoid valve?

Last edited by Alan Belson; 07/22/09 07:12 AM.

Wood work but can't!
Re: 10 HP motor burning start winding contacts [Re: Alan Belson] #188358 08/02/09 01:00 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,721
Scott35 Offline
Broom Pusher and
Member
Grover;

Any News on the Pump Motor issue?

Scott


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!
Re: 10 HP motor burning start winding contacts [Re: Scott35] #188649 08/22/09 10:02 AM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,721
Scott35 Offline
Broom Pusher and
Member
EL-Bump'O #2!!! sick wave

Grover,

Got an update??? dunno

Scott


Scott " 35 " Thompson
Just Say NO To Green Eggs And Ham!
Re: 10 HP motor burning start winding contacts [Re: Scott35] #188702 08/26/09 08:34 PM
Joined: Jul 2002
Posts: 8,359
Trumpy Offline
Member
I was always taught that motors like this weren't designed for "on-off" use.
They were designed for in-frequent starting.
I'd go with the concensus here and say it would pay to install (if possible) a 3 induction motor on some sort of a VSD.
Cage induction motors are more resilient to being started and stopped.


Featured:

2020 National Electrical Code
2020 National Electrical
Code (NEC)

* * * * * * *

2020 Master Electrician Exam Preparation Combos
2020 NEC Electrician
Exam Prep Combos:
Master / Journeyman

 

Member Spotlight
RH1
RH1
California
Posts: 22
Joined: August 2009
Show All Member Profiles 
Top Posters(30 Days)
Trumpy 20
Popular Topics(Views)
272,219 Are you busy
206,111 Re: Forum
194,102 Need opinion
Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.3