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Re: Fixture selection #18633 12/13/02 01:51 PM
Joined: May 2002
Posts: 106
j a harrison Offline

Be careful, Joes on his way round !!!

Have fun, and dont break no more codes!!

john H

Work Gear for Electricians and the Trades
Re: Fixture selection #18634 12/13/02 03:16 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 360
Trainwire Offline OP
Mr. Harrison,
I break as few as possible. These lampholders where here when I got here. The switch died in one, and I wanted to replace it with something that would not be questioned as to code.

Joe's welcome anytime, just as long as he doesn't smack me too hard with his newspaper [Linked Image]


[This message has been edited by Trainwire (edited 12-13-2002).]

Re: Fixture selection #18635 12/13/02 04:09 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,691
SvenNYC Offline

Is this what you have in your closet?

Question: Is this a "lampholder" or a "fixture?" I would call it a fixture, but the manufacturers seem to think otherwise.

These are standard in many houses and mom's got them for the kitchen light, foyer, dining/living room and hallway.


No lightbulbs in closets though. That's almost like asking for a fire. [Linked Image]

Re: Fixture selection #18636 12/13/02 05:07 PM
Joined: Nov 2001
Posts: 40
GlennH Offline

Thats not so bad, I Went to a wedding in your neck of the woods once ,can't remember exactly where. I stayed overnight at a friend of a friends house, got up in the morn to take shower and in the tub/shower was a "lampholder" just like SVENs except the string was off leaving only the metal chain. I think your neighbors the AMISH have the right idea:> )


Re: Fixture selection #18637 12/13/02 06:56 PM
Joined: Mar 2002
Posts: 360
Trainwire Offline OP
Schven: yup, dat's da one. Actually, I just checked the closets, the "LAMPHOLDERS" are all mounted to the ceiling, and these are taller than normal cielings, so there is a fair amount of room between the bulb and the flammables. There is a ceder lined storage closet in the basement that was going to get changed anyway, I'm pretty paranoid about that one staying on any longer than it absolutly has to. The clothes and the bulb are too close for comfort in there.

Glenn: the amish use those white gas camp lamps for light, propane or kerosene. They've been known to burn a house down from time to time too.


Re: Fixture selection #18638 12/13/02 07:13 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Joe Tedesco Offline

I am the first to admit that I too have called a "lampholder" a fixture and can appreciate the fire hazards related to open incandesant lamps in a closet.

Hey Sven:

The pictures you have been posting are very clear. I see they are from Lowe's ... do you have a link to their master directory, or can you spend some time posting the electrical products in another thread for electrical equipment?

For example, do they have 30 ampere dryer and 50 amperre range outlets and cords?

Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Re: Fixture selection #18639 12/15/02 02:20 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,691
SvenNYC Offline
Joe Tedesco:

What I do is go to the Lowe's website and click on an item with a photo. Then when I'm in the item's website, I click on the picture to enlarge (the website enables you to do this). When I have the large picture up, I right click (this is using a windows 2000 with internet explorer machine) the picture to get the properties. Then I copy-n-paste the URL for the picture itself and post that on the thread using the img and /img tags in the brackets to surround it.

I will look tomorrow (Monday) at work where I have a nice fast machine & inaternet connection for the cord-caps you said (here I am on a 200 megahertz machine). Hopefully they have pictures of them - not all items have pictures. In fact, I will most likely post a bunch of pictures of things that I can find in the elctrical department so that you can possibly save them on your site or whatever. Lowe's site is flakey sometimes (or they might remove a picture with no warning).

I hope what I said above made some sense.... [Linked Image]

Re: Fixture selection #18640 12/15/02 03:58 PM
Joined: Oct 2000
Posts: 2,749
Joe Tedesco Offline

OK, but the image links to another web site often slow things down. I save the picture and add it to the ECN library.

(C) Luminaire (Fixture) Types Not Permitted. Incandescent luminaires (fixtures) with open or partially enclosed lamps and pendant luminaires (fixtures) or lampholders shall not be permitted.

The requirement in 410.8(D)(3) results from tests that have shown that a hot filament falling from a broken incandescent lamp can ignite combustible material below the luminaire in which the lamp is installed.

Joe Tedesco, NEC Consultant
Re: Fixture selection #18641 12/15/02 10:00 PM
Joined: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,691
SvenNYC Offline

So to make sure I understand your post correctly: Porcelain lampholder/fixtures like the one pictured, or even those fancy fixtures with the tulip-shaped glass shades (the ones that flare downwards) and similar open-ended shaded light-sets on ceiling fans are all not permitted under Code?


Guess when I redo the wiring in the kitchen-ette here at home, I'll be replacing the bare bulb fixture over the sink with either an enclosed globe or jelly jar.

My grandmother once had a bulb fall out of a ceiling socket. The cement in the screw base deteriorated, the little wires going into the glass snapped and the glass fell on the tiled floor...and it remained in one piece!!! She saved it to show me when I stopped to remove the metal screw-shell out of the fixture with a small needlenose plier. I still couldn't believe it didn't shatter.

And yes, I did pull the breaker before sticking my pliers into that thing!! [Linked Image]

I've seen some of those down-lights with uncovered bulbs set in a tin reflector in a lot of chain restaurants. You Outback Steakhouse and places like that...

Question #2: Until Trainwire redoes his wiring, would it be prudent to get small screw-in compact fluorecent bulbs and put them in place of the incandecents? Granted you still have the problem of something falling, crashing against the bulb and shattering it. But the heat problem is sort of solved for the time being, right?

Re: Fixture selection #18642 12/15/02 10:35 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 558
caselec Offline
410.8 covers closes clothes and would not apply to a fixture over a kitchen sink. Fluorescent fixtures with open lamps are permitted in clothes closets provided there is at least 6" between the fixture and nearest point of storage. Using compact fluorescent lamps in existing open incandescent fixtures would be a good idea but not permitted for new installations.


Curt Swartz
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