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Break Rooms Ect #185952
04/07/09 05:12 PM
04/07/09 05:12 PM
Yoopersup  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 840
In Break rooms Ect where theres just a sink, & 2 counter top outlets (GFI) of course. I take it we still use the 1500 volt amps per outlet for calculations right.

2017 / 2014 NEC & Related Books and Study Guides
Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: Yoopersup] #185955
04/07/09 08:01 PM
04/07/09 08:01 PM
gfretwell  Offline

Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,184
It is not a 210.52(B) "kitchen" if that is your question.

Greg Fretwell
Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: gfretwell] #185957
04/07/09 09:19 PM
04/07/09 09:19 PM
renosteinke  Offline
Cat Servant
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Blue Collar Country
1500? I don't see any requirement to use more than 180 in your calculations.

Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: renosteinke] #185965
04/08/09 11:30 AM
04/08/09 11:30 AM
KJay  Offline
Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
I would just add that since it's not a dwelling unit, I would normally just put in what was needed for the layout.

The last one I did was in a lawyer's office, which had one of those combo microwave/refrigerator units and a small counter top/sink area with a dedicated space for a Bunn coffee maker.
As I recall, I just basically put in two dedicated 20A circuits for those items, but optionally added another 20A circuit for the counter top area incase they ever wanted to plug in a toaster oven or something similar, if allowed to. GFCI's on them as mentioned, since they were all within 6-feet of the edge of the sink.

Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: KJay] #185969
04/08/09 06:15 PM
04/08/09 06:15 PM
Yoopersup  Offline OP
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 840
I know its not by defination a Kitchen BUT You do know the Loads that well be there as KJAY stated.

Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: Yoopersup] #185970
04/08/09 08:29 PM
04/08/09 08:29 PM
Niko  Offline
Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 356
Campbell, CA
Designing is a different subject than what the code says. As I read the NEC 2008 and as renosteinke mentioned it is only 180VA per strap/yoke.
I am a proponent of a good design for now and for future loads and not just the minimum by the NEC.

Be kind to your neighbor, he knows where you live

Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: Niko] #185971
04/08/09 09:55 PM
04/08/09 09:55 PM
HotLine1  Offline

Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 6,934
Brick, NJ USA
180 va for NEC calcs. THe design professional (IF there is one) has to determine requirements ABOVE code minimum in this case. THe NEC is not a design manual, nor is good old 'common sense' anywhere within the nine chapters.

I recently inspected a 'break room' that had 20 (twenty) 120 volt, 20 amp dedicated circuits w/single recepts at the counter areas for the twenty (20) micros for employee lunch/dinner. (Along with a 4.5KW tea brewer)

Re: Break Rooms Ect [Re: HotLine1] #185983
04/09/09 10:20 AM
04/09/09 10:20 AM
ghost307  Offline
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 934
Chicago Illinois USA
I agree with John.
Many times I have responded to "just put in whatever the Code minimum is...I don't want to just throw money away" with my canned response:
"I can design an installation that will meet every Code requirement, but even the Amish will be blowing fuses".

There are a lot of folks out there who fail to understand that the Code is concerned with Fires and Electrocution.
If you don't have enough power to run your appliances...that's a separate problem.

That's why I always look over and above the minimums in my designs...yet there are still an awful lot of cheapstakes out there who want just the bare minimum.


BTW, in Chicago installing a microwave oven invokes the Plumbing Code (you need a grease trap installed at the teeny little sink).



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