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#185952 04/07/09 05:12 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 849
Y
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In Break rooms Ect where theres just a sink, & 2 counter top outlets (GFI) of course. I take it we still use the 1500 volt amps per outlet for calculations right.
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Joined: Jul 2004
Posts: 9,696
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It is not a 210.52(B) "kitchen" if that is your question.


Greg Fretwell
Joined: Jan 2005
Posts: 5,316
Cat Servant
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1500? I don't see any requirement to use more than 180 in your calculations.

Joined: Nov 2007
Posts: 763
K
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I would just add that since it's not a dwelling unit, I would normally just put in what was needed for the layout.

The last one I did was in a lawyer's office, which had one of those combo microwave/refrigerator units and a small counter top/sink area with a dedicated space for a Bunn coffee maker.
As I recall, I just basically put in two dedicated 20A circuits for those items, but optionally added another 20A circuit for the counter top area incase they ever wanted to plug in a toaster oven or something similar, if allowed to. GFCI's on them as mentioned, since they were all within 6-feet of the edge of the sink.


KJay #185969 04/08/09 06:15 PM
Joined: Mar 2003
Posts: 849
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I know its not by defination a Kitchen BUT You do know the Loads that well be there as KJAY stated.
Yoopersup

Joined: Aug 2006
Posts: 356
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Designing is a different subject than what the code says. As I read the NEC 2008 and as renosteinke mentioned it is only 180VA per strap/yoke.
I am a proponent of a good design for now and for future loads and not just the minimum by the NEC.


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Niko #185971 04/08/09 09:55 PM
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 7,299
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180 va for NEC calcs. THe design professional (IF there is one) has to determine requirements ABOVE code minimum in this case. THe NEC is not a design manual, nor is good old 'common sense' anywhere within the nine chapters.

I recently inspected a 'break room' that had 20 (twenty) 120 volt, 20 amp dedicated circuits w/single recepts at the counter areas for the twenty (20) micros for employee lunch/dinner. (Along with a 4.5KW tea brewer)


John
Joined: May 2005
Posts: 984
Likes: 1
G
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I agree with John.
Many times I have responded to "just put in whatever the Code minimum is...I don't want to just throw money away" with my canned response:
"I can design an installation that will meet every Code requirement, but even the Amish will be blowing fuses".

There are a lot of folks out there who fail to understand that the Code is concerned with Fires and Electrocution.
If you don't have enough power to run your appliances...that's a separate problem.

That's why I always look over and above the minimums in my designs...yet there are still an awful lot of cheapstakes out there who want just the bare minimum.

smile

BTW, in Chicago installing a microwave oven invokes the Plumbing Code (you need a grease trap installed at the teeny little sink).


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